The Biggest Problem in the Universe - Episode 46
Transcription courtesy of: Megan Pennock
Automated Female Voice: This is a Global Tel Link prepaid call from: Dick Masterson. (Dick's own voice)
(main theme from "Serial" podcast)
Maddox: (mockingly pensive) What is the worth of a man's word if a claim is to be made in the present that contradicts the past? Should he be held accountable for it? I'm Sarah Koenig. On May 20th, 2014 Dick Masterson, co-host of the popular podcast The Biggest Problem in the Universe, brought in a problem that few could relate to: Guys Asking Other Guys About Their Dogs. During the episode, he made the case that his handsome and brilliant co-host Maddox was being stupid on purpose.
Dick (from Episode 1): I think you're being stupid on purpose.
Maddox: The reason? Well, it turns out that Dick would make a claim 10 months later during a recording of Episode 45 on March 24th, 2015 that would be the beginning of what would undermine his argument from Episode 1. But first, here's the original statement Dick made from the past.
Dick (from Episode 1): I think that what this is gonna turn into is just straight guys hitting on straight guys all the time.
Maddox: I asked him what he really thought. There was only one person who could know what Dick was truly saying that day, and that's Dick Masterson. From the future:
Dick (from Episode 45): I'm always flirting with everyone all the time. Hit on EVERYBODY just in case.
Maddox: Yeah. (skeptical)
Dick: Even men. That's Pickup Artist 101.
(background music turns dramatic)
Maddox: This sounds pretty damning, but could it be a mistake? Could there be something I overlooked? I listened to Episode 45 again, and here's what I found.
Dick (from Episode 45): Even if it's a guy, you gotta be practiced picking up guys.
Maddox: It seems that this is clearly a man conflicted with himself. Although I'm not sure what new information can be gleaned from this investigation, one thing is clear: this is one man with two opinions. ("Serial" theme kicks back in) And we may never truly know what he thinks. This really is a case of...Dick Versus Dick. Thank you for listening.
(Maddox switches to normal voice)
Maddox: Serial is brought to you by MailChimp. "MailChimp?" (nasal voice) "MailChimp?" (stupid voice) "MailChimp." (reedy voice) It sounds adorable when a child says it! "Mail Sa-Hympe?" Oh, it's so hard to pronounce! MailChimp, mlehhh! (stupid voice)
Maddox: Welcome to The Biggest Problem in the Universe, I'm Maddox. With me is Dick Masterson.
Dick: What's up, buddy??
Maddox: And Sean, our audio engineer.
Maddox: Welcome back! Episode 46.
Maddox: Here we go!
Dick: Yeah! If we were a woman, we'd have a...a higher probability of getting eaten by a shark than getting married. This podcast. (cracking up)
Maddox: Is that...is that...?
Dick: I don't know if that's true. (Maddox laughs) I don't know.
Maddox: Hey, well, you got no stats for us! (Dick laughs) Not a single *stats* this time. Uh, Dick, we are really happy about, uh...the way the bonus episode turned out this week.
Maddox: It was a really fun episode. So I just want to tease this a little bit, because way back when, I brought in Hippies as a problem. Do you remember that?
Maddox: Hippies. And for that episode I talked specifically about one of my neighbors, who's this obnoxious, belligerent, DISGUSTING hippie.
Maddox: She's a disgusting human being. She sprayed water inside my car! You remember that, right?
Dick: She's a violent lunatic.
Maddox: Violent lunatic. Well, for this week's bonus episode I brought in a recording of her...
Maddox: ...accosting me in, uh, in the streets, in public! It's a really fun episode, guys. Here's just a little preview. I just wanna play this. [ plays clip from Bonus Episode 6]
Hippie Neighbor: (shrill voice) I thought you were goin' the other way! I thought you lived over there! What are you goin' over here -
Maddox: Stop following me, [bleeped name].
Hippie Neighbor: Oh, you want some more, you motherfucker?
(Dick and Maddox laugh)
Dick: What are you gonna do about that lady?
Maddox: (inhales thoughtfully) Eh, well...
Dick: You gotta provoke her into assaulting you so you...you can get her arrested.
Maddox: Nonono, Dick! Because she already has, and she hasn't been arrested.
Maddox: Anyway, yeah, that's...that's a little preview of, uh, of the bonus episode. Which, by the way, thank you for supporting the show. We're able to fund a lot of things, like the transcribers. I gotta give a shout-out to Megan Pennock. She's been doin' transcriptions for these episodes for a long time, along with Laurie, and Megan recently helped create the glossary for the show. So check it out, it's on the main page. If you go to the main page at http://thebiggestproblemintheuniverse.com, click on 'Glossary' and you can see a lot of common terms and references that we mention so it's not just a...a big circlejerk, this show, like a bunch of inside jokes and references, which I hate. Uh, when podcasts do that.
Dick: No, in fact, I saw someone commenting that "when Maddox makes a 'bags of sand' comment"...
Dick: ...it should be on there, and it should be on the bingo board as well. Who said that? (looks for comment)
Maddox: That's just projection, though! That's not a real thing that happens. You THINK it's a "bags of sand" comment.
Dick: Mark Rotch. He's the one that said that. (smiles) (Maddox laughs) I don't know, you do make "bags of sand" comments.
Maddox: Says you!
Dick: You don't think so? (chuckling)
Sean: I don't know...I don't know that one! (Dick laughs)
Dick: That's when we talk about anything that has to do with sex, and Maddox is like...
Sean: Oh, the "sand at the beach"!
Dick: ...he's had sex in the ocean, and you're like, "How the hell did you have sex in the ocean?" and he's like, "Well, just like wiggling around." And you're like, "How the fuck does that work?"
Maddox: Nonono Sean, it's a reference to the movie "The 40-Year-Old Virgin," right?
Maddox: In "The 40-Year-Old Virgin," they go around the table while they're playing poker and they're all talkin' about sex, and it comes to...what's his name, uh...
Dick: Steve Carell.
Maddox: Steve Carell, yeah, and he's trying to describe what sex is like.
Dick: He's tryin' to describe what breasts feel like.
Maddox: Right. (smiles) What breasts feel like, and he's like, "Oh, you know. Just like, uh, bags of sand." (Dick laughs) And that was the giveaway that he'd never felt breasts before.
Maddox: 'Cause he was a virgin. And so Dick is IMPLYING that -
Dick: (interjects) You're not a virgin! I'm not implying you're a virgin.
Maddox: Yeah. You're just sayin' I SOUND like one. (laughs)
Dick: You come across as weird sometimes when you're talkin' about sex! (cracking up) Like, even with the Penis Injuries problem in the last episode. I still don't know what specific penis injury you're talking about.
Maddox: Dick, are you kidding me?! I SPECIFICALLY explained...I elaborated on what I was talkin' about with the penis injury. Like a lever!!
Dick: Alright. I don't know.
Maddox: Everybody knows!
Dick: I don't wanna...I don't wanna go over it again.
Sean: Yeah, you don't wanna point it...have it pointed down toward your feet, is what you're talking about.
Maddox: Sean knows!
Sean: But I was with Dick's injury.
Dick: Yeah!! Right away.
Sean: That's...that's what I thought of at first.
Maddox: Yeah. You probably have Dick's injury. Um... (Sean laughs loudly in the background) I got a...okay Dick, let's just get this out of the way at the top. The problems last week...top, uh...you know what? Everybody liked the problems!
Maddox: They were all in the positive territory, and they were all neck and neck!
Dick: Yeah! That's true.
Maddox: This was the...I think that's the first time that's ever happened.
Maddox: Mars One barely edged out Utah.
Maddox: And then Penis Injuries barely edged out Loud Talkers.
Dick: Oh, really?
Maddox: Yeah. Just by a little bit.
Maddox: So that...that doesn't count as, uh, whatever you consider a victory, so um...no need to play any songs or anything.
Dick: What do you mean, a sweep?
Maddox: That's not a sweep.
Dick: Somebody...somebody left a voicemail about that. [plays first voicemail message]
Voicemail (male caller): As I look through all the biggest problems in the universe and I keep my eye on all the problems that Dick brings in, I start to notice something: that Dick's kinda missing the FUCKING point of the podcast. (Maddox laughs) It's not "The Biggest Problems to DICK"...
Voicemail: ...it's "The Biggest Problems in the Fucking UNIVERSE."
Dick: Yeah, but we voted!
Voicemail: Also, to the guy who called in from Florida: get raped. (everyone laughs)
Maddox: I love how that's kind of like, taken on as an official slogan for the show, based on that YouTube comment.
Dick: The MisterBurgers guy?
Maddox: Yeah, the MisterBurgers "get raped" comment.
Dick: Here's another one. [plays second voicemail message]
Voicemail (male caller): Hey Maddox, this is Chris from Bumfuck-Nowhere, Pennsylvania. (Maddox laughs) I wanna let you guys know I was pumped when I saw that Maddox's problems in Episode 44 got the most upvotes.
Voicemail: 'Cause that means I didn't have to listen to 30 seconds-plus of BULLSHIT from that cockbungler DICK. ..
Maddox: Yeah. (laughing)
Voicemail: ...every time he "wins," quotation marks. Hey Dick, Maddox has told you at least 10 times it's not a FUCKIN' competition. (Dick laughs) You so high on estrogen you can't get that through your skull?Alright, nobody wins! It's not a fuckin' game! Nobody with a penis longer than 3 centimeters wants to listen to Titanic. (both laugh) You know who does lose? We do, when you play that shit. FUCK you, Dick.
Maddox: (laughs hysterically) Oh man, I wanna set that as my ringtone! No, you know what? (Dick starts playing "My Heart Will Go On" parody) I wanna set that as my text message...AH, FUCK YOU, DICK!!! (Dick cackles) THIS IS BULLSHIT! Didn't you learn anything from that last phone call?!
Dick: I need to hear it again!
Maddox: Yeah!! (angrily)
Dick: I'm too dense! (grinning)
Maddox: Fuckin' asshole! You see, he said you have no dick! You know what that means? If you don't have a dick longer than 3 centimeters, that's a clit. (Dick laughs) That is a clit by definition, dude. You got a clit!
Dick: Wait a minute!! (laughing)
Maddox: You got a giant pussy!
Dick: A di-...a penis the size of...a penis 3 centimeters long is not the definition of a clitoris.
(Male singer: Maddox is an asshole...)
Maddox: LOOK IT UP!! (laughs)
Dick: Let's stop there! (still laughing)
(Male singer: ...and he can go fuck himself...)
Maddox: You know what? Put it in the glossary!! "A penis is a...is anything smaller than 3 centimeters." A clit.
Dick: That is a "bags of sand" comment! (yelling over Maddox and song)
Maddox: NO! (laughs more)
Dick: That is a "bags of sand" comment.
Maddox: You don't know what the FUCK you're talkin' about.
(Male singer: ...his problems all suck and he deseeeeeerves this.)
Dick: "The definition of a clitoris is a small penis." NOT true!
Maddox: That's it!! That's ba-...they're basically the same thing. I get it. You pee outta one, you pee outta the other. (Dick laughs hysterically) It's the same fuckin'... (cracks up)
(Male singer: Keeeeep playing these Titanic clips...)
Maddox: Sean, I don't wanna hear it. THIS FUCKIN' SONG! I'm SWEATING, I'm so mad. You know what, Dick? You don't even have the vocabulary of a sex expert. (Dick still laughing) That's what I am!
(Male singer: ...and Dick, you can go on and...)
Maddox: That's why you don't understand! That's why it's so foreign to you, 'cause it sounds like "bags of sand"? That's because I'm an expert.
(Male singer: ...go on and go fuuuuuuuuck yourself.)
Dick: I just wanna know how you hurt your penis, that's all. (song fades out) (Sean laughs in the background)
Maddox: (yells) Like a fuckin' lever! Everybody knows, I don't have to...I'm not gonna go -
Dick: (interjects) I just don't GET it!
Maddox: I know, Dick, you don't get A LOT. (Dick scoffs)
Maddox: Fuckin' ape. Uh -
Dick: (interjects) Wait, I got...I got some more comments.
Dick: Uh, Brian Beckwith. He says he has "a friend who moved to Utah for a couple years and got a job as a Sex Ed teacher, at a public high school. She told me they required that she promote abstinence until marriage and wasn't allowed to go over any forms of birth control."
Maddox: Wooow! Wait...
Dick: That's...yeah, "Again - "
Maddox: (interjects) This was in Utah?
Dick: "Again, this was even a PUBLIC school," he says.
Maddox: Yeah, I went to a public school in Utah though, and I went to a very conservative area of it and I do believe they did teach us...uh, protection. Yeah, nonono, we definitely did! I remember we had to make a poster about condom use in, uh, junior high school.
Maddox: Yeah! And one of my...I remember one of the jocks made his say...his slogan was "cover the lump before you hump." (Dick laughs) Which I thought was -
Dick: (interjects) That's a good slogan!
Maddox: Yeah, I thought it was pretty clever.
Maddox: Pretty clever, but it's pretty common. I think he may have ripped it off, but uh...
Maddox: Yeah. I've seen it since. I Googled it the other day and there was like, millions of results.
Dick: What was your slogan?
Maddox: Uh... (sighs) Somethin' like, uh... (stammers) It doesn't matter what I say, 'cause you're gonna make it sound like a "bags of sand" reference. (Dick cackles) I don't remember. It was some...look, trust me, it sounded like it came from somebody who was very experienced.
Dick: "Before you pee, put a condom on your wee-wee." (laughing)
Maddox: Yeah, great. (sarcastic)
Dick: Was that it?
Maddox: I think mine was just somethin' that, uh, was very practical. Like "unwrap it in the right direction so that...so that it works properly." So that... (cracks up) (Sean laughs)
Sean: It's like a PSA.
Maddox: Yeah. I care! That's what a sex expert does.
Maddox: A sexpert. [Dick plays next voicemail message]
Voicemail (male caller imitating Kermit the Frog): Hello, Kermit the Frog here. (Maddox laughs) Where Dick should have sex with his man and finally get it over with and come out of the closet that he's a flaming homo! (Maddox laughs more)
Dick: Oh my goodness!
Voicemail: There's nothing wrong with that, YAAAAAY! (Maddox laughs more)
Sean: That's a good Kermit!
Voicemail: It's okay to be gay, according to Kermit the Frog here! Goodbye! (everyone laughs) Dick, go fuck yourself.
Dick: Eh. (amused) Cool!
Maddox: Yeah. Um, Dick, I got a comment from...Jamie Marquez.
Maddox: And...I don't know if it's a guy or a girl. He said, "I think both of Dick's problems this week are a subset of Maddox's problem of Utah. Penis injuries can be attributed to inexperienced anal sex practices and the type of people who would fall for the Mars One scam are perfect candidates for the LDS. Go vote up Utah as the biggest problem." Yeah! Couldn't agree more, Jamie.
Dick: Hey, you know, speaking of our solutions episode, didn't you bring in Rude People as a solution?
Maddox: Yeah, and I specifically enumerated the types of rude people that are the solution, yes.
Dick: Okay, 'cause somebody said that talking too loud is a rude...thing.
Maddox: Yeah, you would think, but look man, it's not a...look, I gave specific examples of rudeness.
Maddox: Not all rude behavior is good.
Maddox: *Some* is good.
Dick: Um, Katie Diane says "Hey Dick, I took the liberty of adding a man bun to Maddox." You were shitting on man buns -
Maddox: Oh, yeah. (smiling)
Dick: - 'cause you're jealous, last episode. Remember that?
Maddox: Yeah. No, I wasn't jealous!
Dick: So she...she put a man bun on you.
Maddox: Great, let's see this.
Dick: What do you think? (shows Maddox) I think it looks pretty good!
Maddox: Yeah. Ehh, now I'm lookin' at... (cracks up) ...myself with -
Dick: (interjects) Looks cool, right??
Maddox: I immediately pictured one of those samurai, or like, sumo buns on my head. It actually does look pretty cool.
Dick: Yeah, you look like Sabretooth! Right?
Maddox: Yeah, but that's because I look like a samurai wearing that thing. That's why!
Dick: Well, looks cool.
Maddox: I don't look like a hipster DOUCHEBAG.
Dick: Alright. (chuckling)
Maddox: Wearin' Toms. Which, of the two of us in this room, Dick, you're the only one who's ever worn Toms.
Maddox: Well, I...uh, sorry Sean, you're in this room too. Um...
Dick: They're comfortable.
Sean: I've never worn Toms! I would never have those.
Maddox: No, I was implying that you were a third. (laughs) I said two..."of the two of us in this room." Well, my comment is a lead-in to my problem.
Dick: Oh, well, no. Um... (chuckles) Don't get excited. You've still got some watching of Titanic to do.
Maddox: I'm NOT gonna watch Titanic, Dick.
Dick: Yep! If you remember, we last left off where the Titanic crew had discovered something potentially very exciting under the sea. That's where we pick up. (hushed tone) [plays next 30 seconds of Titanic]
Maddox: It was an end to this bit, I hope.
Dick: No. (grinning)
(music and dialogue from movie in background)
Maddox: They find that?
Dick: Nope, they didn't find that!
Maddox: Man, it'd be so great if I was -
Dick: (interjects) There's only one end to THIS bit. (mischievously)
Maddox: I wish I was under that...when they discovered me in the sea, and I was just sittin' there flippin' 'em off. (Dick laughs) They open up this hatch and I'm just sittin' there angry with my dick out, with a fuckin' hard on. "Ahhh, fuck you!!"
Dick: Are you watching this?
Maddox: No, I'm... (burps)
(underwater sounds from movie)
Maddox: I'm not gonna look.
Dick: Their submarine is finding something, dude!
Dick: You're not interested at all?
Maddox: Not at all.
Dick: To see what they might find in the Titanic?
Maddox: I know what they're gonna find!
Maddox: A bunch of horseshit!
(mechanical sounds from underwater robot)
Dick: (yells) What if it's not horseshit? This is a hugely successful movie!!
Dick: It was probably something at least a little bit interesting! You're not even curious?
Maddox: NO! I know what it...I know, it's some jewel or something, right?
Dick: Listen to the music!
(Bill Paxton: Go. Go, go, go.)
Maddox: Great. (surly)
(Bill Paxton: Flip it over, flip it over, go!)
(more mechanical sounds)
Maddox: Oh, WOW. Oh, so intense. (sarcastic)
Dick: Maddox! Look!!
(Bill Paxton: Go, go, go!)
Maddox: Where is the...?!
Dick: The door is flipping! The door is flipping.
Maddox: Dick, where...what is the urgency in this scene? It's a fucking ship that's been there for a CENTURY. What's the urgency here?
(dreamlike background music)
Maddox: Buncha bullshit. You get... (scoffs)
Dick: That's it.
Maddox: Buncha hyped dipshits watching that movie.
Dick: You'll have to wait 'til next time to see what they found.
Maddox: Yeah. (skeptical)
Dick: In the Titanic.
Maddox: Yeah, I bet your big pussy's wet right now. (Sean laughs in the background)
Dick: Hey, by the way...
Dick: ...you didn't thank...you're not being appreciative enough of the Oculus Rift-type device present that I got you during the bonus episode. (Maddox sighs in frustration)
Maddox: Okay, Dick, you are such an asshole. (Dick scoffs) Like, you are...the gravity of your assholeness is starting to pull in and you're gonna collapse in on yourself.
Dick: Okay. (Sean laughs in the background)
Maddox: Um, so Dick -
Dick: (interjects) What the hell does that mean?
Maddox: Dick...Dick tricked me into thinking...you know what, I'm not gonna give it away. He gave me some bullshit...some horseshit gift in the bonus episode. I'm fuckin' pissed, Dick. I'll just say that.
Dick: You're pissed off at it??
Maddox: I'm pissed off! I'm pissed off at everything.
Dick: Alright. (dismissively)
Maddox: Yeah. Anyway Dick, should we get to the problems?
Dick: Yeah, go ahead. Do you wanna go first?
Maddox: Yeah. Dick, I...
Maddox: ...I wrote a status update. My, uh... (sighs) My problem this week -- the biggest problem in the universe -- is Vine stars.
Maddox: You know what Vine is?
Dick: Yeah, it's like Instagram for videos.
Maddox: Yeah, it's that service that...it's basically 5-Second Films before...uh, after 5-Second Films. It's basically YTMND after YTMND.
Dick: Okay, yeah.
Maddox: So they take a...you know, Vine is a service that allows you to create videos that loop over and over and over again for 6 seconds, and people make a lot of stupid little jokes and they post 'em on there, and there's...they get these millions of followers and they become Vine stars. Basically, all the...all the jokes, all the clips on Vine...uh, here's what they sound like. Here's an example, a typical Vine. Listen to this. [ plays first Vine example]
Female Voice #1: What'd you learn in school today, honey?
Female Voice #2: That school is Satan's butthole and I fuckin' hate my life. (Dick laughs)
Female Voice #1: That's great. You want mashed pota-
Dick: Yeah. (amused)
Maddox: Great. Cool. Real funny Vine. (flatly)
Dick: What's wrong with that?? What, you don't think it's funny?
Maddox: It's not funny.
Dick: It's NOT funny?
Dick: Oh, but here's an example of something that's funny: "The iPhone is a piece of shit, and so is your face."
Maddox: Oh -
Dick: (interjects) That's hilarious, right?
Maddox: Well, based on the 7-plus million views and the 17,000 diggs that it got when Digg was still a thing...
Maddox: ...uh, yeah Dick, I would say that the consensus agrees on that, right?
Dick: Yeah. (smiling)
Maddox: Yeah. Well -
Dick: (interjects) I thought it was funny!
Maddox: Yeah! No, it is funny, Dick. Um...that's irrelevant. We're talkin' about Vine here.
Maddox: 'Kay? This is a 6-second clip. You thought that was funny? You laughed!
Dick: Well, yeah, 'cause it's like shocking...shock value potty humor. I mean, she's saying a bunch of bad words, "Satan's butthole" about school. Okay, that's funny.
Maddox: Yeah, well...
Dick: I guess.
Maddox: Yeah, it was funny in the -
Dick: (interjects) I'm not gonna buy tickets to see the sequel!
Maddox: Yeah, but that's all it is. That's all the, uh, that's all the clips are on Vine. (suddenly yells) You've made me so mad already, Dick! (Dick laughs)
Maddox: You're defending this horseshit! Are you ki-...are you serious?? Are you serious right now? Are you...do you really like Vine? Or are you just fuckin' with me?
Dick: I don't use it! I've used it one time. I've used Vine once. Um...I posted a video of me at Saint Patrick's Day, and I posted it crooked. I, like, did it the wrong rotation?
Dick: And then the girl...this girl...I was dating this girl, which was the reason I joined, 'cause she said she was on Vine. I was like, "Alright, I'll get on Vine and see what you're doin' on there." I posted it, and I was like, "That's it? Uh, I'm out. I can do this on Instagram. I don't care."
Maddox: Yeah. You know Dick, the difference between Vine and my website...specifically that website you cited, "The iPhone is a piece of shit, and so is your face," is that I made a cogent argument in that article.
Maddox: And it wasn't just there to be, "Ha ha, here's my 6-second thing about Satan's butthole and school."
Maddox: "School sucks!" Aww, what... (sarcastic) It's so passé. It's so old. What is this, like, the '90s with Bart Simpson? Are you fucking kidding me with that shit? "Cowabunga"?
Dick: It's just a stupid joke!!
Maddox: It IS a stupid joke.
Dick: It's a stupid 6-second joke! What do you want? (yelling)
Maddox: Well, that's the...I'm drawing a contrast between Vine content and real content that takes work, research...
Dick: Ohohohoho. (mocking)
Dick: It's not real content. (incredulous)
Maddox: No, it's not.
Maddox: It abso-fuckin'-lutely isn't. Um, I wrote a status update on Facebook and Twitter. I said, "Vine: for when you want to know what girls/guys 'be like.'"
Maddox: End quote. Because that's every fucking Vine, is "Girls be like, 'Wrah wrah wrah wrah wrahhh!'" (obnoxious voice) and "Guys be like, 'Urrrrhhhh!'" (deep voice) EVERY fuckin' Vine is like that. They're unoriginal, they're unfunny...
Dick: Yeah. ALL of them?
Dick: There's nobody doing what you're doing on there?
Maddox: No, not all of them.
Maddox: I like...you know, there's...I've seen a few Vines on there that are pretty funny. What's his name, Will Sasso? Will Sasso has some funny Vines. He doesn't...Vine anymore. I hate that I used "Vine" as a verb.
Maddox: But he doesn't make Vines anymore. There's a guy named King Bach...he's pretty funny I guess, but it's pretty...it's pretty safe humor. He's like, "White people be like this, and black people be like that."
Dick: Oh, that's...that's pretty funny.
Maddox: Nyeah. (skeptical)
Maddox: Yeah. Yeah, it was funny in the '70s when Richard Pryor did it. Um...anyway, it's all derivative. It's all derivative crap on Vine. And anyway, when I wrote that status update this guy (cracks up) got really offended. His name is Fermin Martinez...on Facebook, and he said, "Dude how old are you? All your work for the last few years has been crazy out of touch. You went from 'best page in the universe' to 'old guy who doesn't get the Internet.' Basically you've become Rush Limbaugh." (chuckles dismissively)
Dick: You do sound like an old guy, saying that these kids aren't funny with their 6-second things. And by the way, saying that in a *status update.* Like, what's the difference between a status update and an article? It's the same as a Vine and, like, a full video.
Maddox: Well, sure, but a status update is just a passing commentary. The Vine is supposed to be...they're making these Vines to be funny or provocative. And most of 'em are really obnoxious. There's this guy...uh, this French dude, I forget. He's a really popular Viner. I met him! I met him and he's a nice guy, but his Vines are SO obnoxious! He just walks up to people and yells at them...yells in their ear and startles them, and he thinks that's...that's funny. I mean kinda, I guess, the first time I saw it, but after a certain point you're just becoming an obnoxious asshole who's yelling outbursts in public for attention, and that attention comes to you in little 6-second increments.
Maddox: That's all it is.
Maddox: So this guy Fermin Martinez criticized me for being old, and then a few people commented on this thread and they started making fun of his name, and they said, "Fermin? Sounds like 'vermin.'" (both laugh) You know? Real...
Dick: Like, what's the difference??
Maddox: ...real immature joke. Hold on, hold on.
Dick: Yeah, okay.
Maddox: Follow me here. It's a real immature joke, right?
Maddox: And then he started whining! (Dick laughs) He started crying, like "Ohh, people made fun of me for my name in grade school!" So then I commented and I said, "Hey guys, who am I? 'Maddox, you're too old, Vine is cool, get with the times! Hey guys, don't make fun of my name, that's too immature, what are you, grade schoolers?!'" (whiny voice) Buncha fuckin' crybabies. They don't like it when the mirror turns around on them, do they?
Dick: I don't know.
Maddox: Yeah. Anyway man, um...Vine stars are the worst people. They are worse than YouTube stars, they're worse than Internet stars, they're worse than celebrities; they're the worst. Vine stars are the worst because they're the most entitled of all celebrities, Dick. And they're not even celebrities! Let's start there.
Dick: Well, I don't know any.
Maddox: What, Vine stars?
Dick: Who's a Vine star?
Maddox: Like, these people I've been mentioning. Um, King Bach...that clip I played, the "Satan's butthole" one, is from this girl named Jessi Smiles.
Dick: How is she like a star? Like, what is...what is a...
Maddox: Oh, these... (exasperated)
Dick: ...what is a star on Vine?
Maddox: These Vine stars are people...they have millions of followers.
Dick: Oh, okay.
Maddox: And they have millions of views, and they have millions of fans.
Dick: So like Twitter but with video.
Maddox: Essentially, yeah.
Maddox: So they're not even celebrities, and this is coming from a guy who started a website in his parents' basement.
Maddox: So... (stammers) Let's not, uh, let's not say that I have any delusions here. However, I am a New York Times bestselling author. (Dick laughs) Right? Something that's an actual accomplishment that people spend YEARS trying to achieve, I have that!
Maddox: So if anyone here is allowed to glom onto that title, I'm a little bit closer to that than they are. These fucking Vine stars who are unaccomplished nobodies with NOTHING under their belts, whose entire careers can be summarized in 15 minutes of video content! All those 6-second clips? They don't even make a fucking...one 15-minute YouTube episode.
Maddox: Anyway man, they didn't come up through the normal channels of fame, where people had to work hard. Right?
Dick: Sitting in their parents' basement, writing?
Maddox: Dick, I've written -
Sean: (interjects) Yelling for soup? (Dick laughs)
Dick: Yeah! How is that working hard?
Maddox: I don't need shit from you two!! I worked for 17 years on my website. For 17 years I've worked...no, it's almost 18 years! It'll be 18 years this August.
Dick: Have you ever calculated the year-per-word ratio on your site? (Sean laughs in the background)
Maddox: (annoyed) Dick...again, I don't need shit. (Dick and Sean laugh) I have written over 300 *pages* of text on my website over the years.
Maddox: Yeah! 300 pages, over...over the years. And that's not even counting the countless -
Dick: (interjects) 2 pages a year?
Maddox: You know what, asshole? (Dick laughs hysterically)
Dick: Well, I mean, what...what? What. What's the deal with these people? Why do you hate them? 'Cause they came up differently than you? Like, all of technology's changed now!
Maddox: No, because they're so entitled, Dick. They didn't put in their dues, they didn't get turned down time and time again by some shithead producer who thinks they know better than you. They haven't been sculpted by criticism, because Vine is a platform that by its nature doesn't ENCOURAGE criticism. The content itself is so short that it's barely worth...criticizing! Like, I'm struggling to criticize what exactly I hate about that Jessi Smiles clip that I played earlier because it's so fucking short! She's not SAYING anything. She's making a...a flip comment about school that's unoriginal, uninspired...it's not new, it's not clever, it's not even funny! The words that she used aren't even...a clever alliteration.
Maddox: Or something that we've even heard before! Satan's butthole? Is that worse than any other body part of Satan? I guess!
Dick: I didn't expect it.
Maddox: Supposedly! Does Satan excrete something that's particularly foul? That's especially foul? (Dick laughs) Do -
Dick: (interjects) I would assume so!
Maddox: Oh, you think so?
Maddox: Yeah, okay.
Dick: It's Satan. (smiling)
Maddox: Well, there you go Dick, I guess she found her demo!
Dick: He feeds on misery.
Maddox: Yeah. (flatly)
Dick: And sorrow. How does that come out?
Maddox: I mean, I don't know, man. We're talkin' about metaphorical things. You can't consume metaphorical things. Whatever, man! It's a stupid fucking comment that she made.
Dick: Well, wait a minute. You're calling into question the LENGTH of these videos like that's bad. (Maddox sighs exasperatedly) Like, what...brevity is the soul of wit. Do you not think there's something to that? I mean, I enjoyed 5-Second Films.
Maddox: Yeah, 5-Second Films is great.
Maddox: But the difference between 5-Second Films and Vine is that with 5-Second Films, they actually write their content, they script it...
Maddox: ...they produce it, they edit it, and they make sure that every second counts, whereas Vine stars...half the fuckin' time it just ends mid-sentence because "Oh, I guess that's what...that's the limitation of the app!" (Dick laughs) "That's the end of it! We're ending here." You know, one of the most popular Vine stars is this guy who's a magician. He does some, uh...you know, some camera trickery and he does do some editing on his videos.
Maddox: He is one of the most famous Vine stars, and he puts in the MINIMAL effort of just editing a few of his clips. The Vine... (stammers) You know what really upsets me, Dick, about Vine stars and Vine as a platform is that it doesn't respect the audience. It doesn't...it's built into the platform to disrespect your audience's time, because everybody thinks "Oh, who doesn't have 6 seconds to spare? I'll watch this Vine, I'll watch the next Vine, I'll watch the next one..." Next thing you know, you've spent a minute; next thing you know, you've spent five.
Maddox: And what do you come away with once you've seen this shitty content that hasn't been edited, that hasn't been...uh, that hasn't been produced? It's not like this podcast.
Dick: A couple of laughs?
Maddox: You hope! You would hope. (Dick scoffs)
Dick: Then I'll stop watching if it's...if I'm not laughing at it.
Maddox: Yeah, but that's how they trick you, Dick, is you think you're gonna get that the next one; the next one's gonna come, that dopamine hit's coming. You know there's gonna be a funny one, it's gotta be funny! There's GOTTA be a funny one, right? But then after about 10 minutes you realize, "What the fuck am I doin' with my life?"
Dick: I don't know, I'm not on Vine, but I assume there's some kind of 'liking' thing. Like, there's popular people.
Dick: You can go look for popular people who...who turn out funny content.
Maddox: Yeah? (skeptical)
Dick: Uh, usually.
Maddox: Mhm, well -
Dick: (interjects) Doesn't it work like everything else on the Internet, where it's self-curated? Where it's curated by the community?
Maddox: No Dick, because Vine stars...Vine stars feed on a particularly young demographic, and young people are stupid. Um, here's... (cracks up) Here's the case in point.
Dick: What...?! Okay. (sighing)
Maddox: Here's the case in point.
Dick: Go ahead.
Maddox: This guy named Nash Grier...he's a very popular Vine star. So going by your argument, we should just look at the popular people, see what they're doing. Maybe they're doing some of the best of the best, right? And he's...
Dick: Well, I mean...
Maddox: ...he's considered one of the biggest Vine stars.
Dick: I'm not saying...that's not my argument, but okay, that sounds...that's not crazy!
Maddox: Well, you said it's curated. I mean look, if you're going off of curated content, and...his stuff does get promoted to the front of Vine often. Right?
Maddox: Here's an example of, uh, some...one of the HILARIOUS jokes that Nash Grier said. Nash Grier, the racist asshole. Here we go. (Dick chuckles) [ plays first Nash Grier Vine example]
Nash: How Asians name their children.
(sound of silverware clanging down steps)
(Nash rattles off nonsense syllables)
Dick: Old joke.
Maddox: Yeah, it's an old joke! "How Asians name their children," and he threw a spoon in the air -- a buncha spoons, and it went...
Maddox: ..."ching chong." Uh, real funny. (dryly) And it's not even original! He's ripping off Jerry Lewis. That was an old Jerry Lewis stand-up set. This is from the Mike O'Meara Show podcast. I heard this, uh, that he went to a Jerry Lewis show. This is from a Jerry Lewis routine a long time ago.
Maddox: Listen to this. [plays stand-up clip]
Jerry Lewis: Chinese have a special way of naming children. They take a HUGE silver platter, they put it on the ground...
Dick: Oh my god.
...they grab a handful of silverware, they throw the silverware up in the air and as it hits the platter, "chang, ching, chong..."
Dick: That joke gets better when it's shorter.
Dick: That was WAY too long.
Maddox: Yeah, it would be awesome if that joke was zero seconds long.
Maddox: It'd be amazing. I would love that joke. Um, that's a shitty joke. It's unoriginal, it's unfunny, and it's not...it's just completely plagiarized from, uh, from Jerry Lewis! This guy Nash Grier. And these kids who are following Nash Grier -- first of all, half of 'em probably thought it was funny 'cause they're all...they're just, uh, they have that hivemind.
Maddox: That racist, bully hivemind.
Dick: Yeah. (chuckling)
Maddox: And then the other half don't even realize it's been ripped off!
Dick: Yeah... (stammers)
Maddox: It's not only offensively bad, but it's...shitty!
Dick: A shitty joke?
Maddox: Yeah!! It's a...it's shitty and it's plagiarized, it's stolen!
Dick: I think I probably heard that joke when I was...13, for the first time.
Dick: I laughed.
Dick: Like, I...you know. Oh, I'm a huge racist, whatever.
Maddox: Yeah, like a dumb...like a dumb 13-year-old.
Maddox: No, I don't think you're racist. I think that kids at that age aren't, uh, reflective enough to even realize what it means to...to laugh at jokes like that, or what it means to make jokes like that. They're not reflective. They're not really thinking ahead. That's why a dumb 13-year-old YOU thought that joke was hilarious, whereas you and I and Sean in this room aren't laughing because it's not funny.
Dick: Well, I already heard it also.
Maddox: Oh, okay. (dismissively)
Dick: And I can't say it...I can't say I wouldn't think it was funny if I hadn't heard it. I don't know!
Maddox: Hey Dick, you wanna hear more, uh, more hilarious Vine jokes?
Maddox: This is a gay joke that Nash Grier made. (Dick laughs) Here we go. [plays second Nash Grier Vine example]
Guy on television: Testing for HIV? It's not a gay thing. It's -
Nash: YES, it IS!! FAAAAAAAAG! (Dick scoffs)
Maddox: Get it?
Dick: Ohoho, wow.
Maddox: Did you get the punchline? The punchline was "fag."
Dick: Oh, that's what he shouted?
Dick: Oh. (dismayed)
Maddox: That was the pu-...that's, uh, some of the hilarious content on Vine.
Dick: Yeah, that's rough, man.
Maddox: Yeah. Real funny stuff, these guys. (sarcastic) Um... (sighs) Some of these Vine -
Dick: (interjects) But you know, Artie Lange talks like that too and I laugh at him.
Maddox: Yeah, but you know, if you're using it in a...in a specific context, it's funny.
Maddox: But he's using it in a hateful context. He's just calling gay people "fags." That's... (stammers) Specifically in a context of a PSA that's saying, "Not just gay people get HIV," which is true and an important thing to get out there. Right? And this, uh, this dickhead...yeah, what do you wanna say, Sean?
Sean: Well, no, Magic Johnson changed the perception on that.
Maddox: Sure! Yeah.
Sean: Just happened to a straight guy, you know? It was like...everybody's eyes opened up.
Sean: At least in the U.S.
Maddox: Yep. Magic Johnson wasn't on Vine. (Dick laughs) Think about that.
Dick: Is that guy's entire Vine racist stuff, or...?
Maddox: No, he has a PR firm behind him. So as soon as that came out, they deleted the Vine.
Maddox: Uh-huh! There was a huge controversy.
Dick: Oh, that's funny.
Maddox: All these, uh, all these YouTubers and people...huge people on Twitter kind of spoke out against it. I think...I believe one of 'em's Tyler Oakley. I think he's a...he's a big gay YouTube star.
Maddox: And he spoke out against it, and so Nash Grier's handlers deleted that tweet, deleted the Vine...
Maddox: ...made it, uh, tried to make it disappear. But it's not goin' away, buddy. It's not disappearing.
Dick: How old is he?
Maddox: Uh, I believe he was like 17 years old when he made this.
Maddox: And if you watch his current stuff, if you watch his YouTube videos, it's just him sittin' there brooding in his hoodie with his bros, thinkin' they're such hot shit. (Dick scoffs) And they have no reason to believe otherwise, 'cause they've never had to endure any kind of criticism other than a few...you know, they fuck up and they can instantly delete it and backtrack and have their PR firm and their handlers just try to save their image, to spare their image.
Maddox: And then they go to, uh...you know, they have a conference; they go to meet some gay leaders or something, and all is forgiven. Right?
Maddox: So you're defending this platform, Dick. Why do you think -
Dick: (interjects) 'Cause I don't see any difference between this and anything else. Like, pop music's exactly the same. It's a buncha kids who are sheltered from anything and everything, who squeaked through the ranks and suddenly they're superstars when they're 17.
Dick: They don't know how to behave in the real world. This seems exactly the same. I don't think what they're creating isn't comedy. I don't think it's funny. I don't watch Vine, but I go on, like, Imgur and...or "Imager," however you say it -
Maddox: Imgur. [pronounced "Imager"] (sighs)
Dick: - and go on the .gif ["jif"]...the .gif [hard 'g']...however you say THAT one.
Maddox: .Gif. [hard 'g']
Dick: I go to the .gif part and, like, laugh at those and send those to my friends. I don't really see the difference!
Maddox: Yeah -
Dick: (interjects) I get that you're...I get that you resent...that you feel you had to work harder for something, and they didn't have to. But that seems...it does seem old. Like, it does seem like you're out on your virtual yard with a rake, shaking it at these Vine kids, telling 'em to get off your Internet.
Sean: And I would also argue that you've achieved more success than they will, because you parlayed, um...your website into a book deal.
Sean: I mean, or you could have a -
Dick: (interjects) Yeah, and two TV shows that didn't get picked up.
Maddox: Yeah. (surly)
Dick: How 'bout that? That's pretty... (cracks up) That's pretty successful!
Sean: Well, whatever. I mean...what I'm saying is, I think you made it a lot further than these people will. Maybe a small percentage of them can actually produce content over *minutes.* You know? I mean, that's...
Maddox: Oho, whoa! Whole minutes! (grins)
Sean: No no, instead of 6 seconds!
Maddox: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sean: That's what I'm saying.
Maddox: Yeah, no, some of 'em have tried. Some of 'em have tried to do that. But Dick, your argument likening it to pop music as a defense is kind of like saying, "Well, uh, smothering on plastic bags isn't so bad, 'cause people smother on carbon monoxide all the time!" Like... (chuckles)
Dick: Wait, what?
Maddox: You're comparing two bad things. You're saying Vine...and by the way, I'm not criticizing Vine as a platform. That could be a...a problem.
Dick: Yeah, but you said it's inherently disrespectful to the audience, which I also don't understand.
Maddox: It is!
Maddox: The number one thing that I...well, one of the first things I consider when I'm writing or creating content is the, uh, is the audience that I'm creating it for. I'm gonna create content that I think that...first of all, I'm making it for myself, but I know the audience. I keep in mind the audience that, uh, that I'm workin' with. Right? Every single one of these podcasts is edited. It's edited for clarity, I take out verbal tics...in fact, I stuttered during that sentence. I'll probably cut that out too.
Sean: I cut out a lot too.
Maddox: Yeah! So it sounds -
Dick: (interjects) Yeah, you don't...you don't cut out NEARLY as much, though.
Sean: Oh no, I never edit for content.
Maddox: Yeah. No, but I clean up...I clean up the clip so it sounds nice. So it sounds like it's something...and it's respectful to the audience. We respect their time. There's podcasts I stopped subscribing to because they don't! They don't give a shit. They have false starts, they leave it in there; when they look up information they leave that dead air in there. I said, "You know what? Fuck you. If you're not gonna respect my time, I'm not gonna listen to you. I'm not going to GIVE you my time." You know? Edit -
Dick: (interjects) You...you don't think these 6-second clips are, like, thought-out?
Dick: I've seen a couple of Vines, maybe, and some...they were by, like, kids who are comedians or trying to be comedians. They LOOKED thought-out. I wouldn't say they were well-executed, but SOME thought went into it.
Maddox: Look man, I'm not gonna generalize all the Vines. Like I said, there are some Vine stars that I think do some...do some clever stuff. I like that King Bach guy, he does some funny stuff, and Will Sasso as I mentioned. I've seen some funny stuff on Vine, and I've watched Vine compilations on YouTube and I've thought about 75 percent of it was pretty funny, but that's out of...MILLIONS of Vines.
Maddox: You know, you might find 15 *minutes* worth of content.
Dick: I don't think there...what's...how is that different than anything else? The writing on the Internet, all garbage...
Maddox: Well, because -
Dick: ...music, garbage.
Maddox: Because Vine makes it so much more difficult to edit your content. It's not a platform that's really conducive to editing. When you're writing, it's easy to edit your writing. You can go back, you can delete words, you can add words, you can rephrase things, but with Vine...say, for example, your whole gimmick in your Vine video is going to be that somebody passes you a basketball and you're standing next to a pool, and you go to catch the ball but you fall in the pool. (Dick giggles)
Dick: That's pretty funny!
Maddox: Oh, my god. (exasperated) Why am I...?
Dick: WHAT?! You don't think that's funny at all?? A guy getting thrown a basketball and he falls into a pool? Wha-...(stammers)
Maddox: Eh, n-...no. It's so tired. (Dick scoffs and laughs) It's...like, I've seen it a billion times. That's why I just came up with that off the top of my head, because it's a simple example that I've seen a billion times. How many times would you have to -
Dick: (interjects) And you hate that.
Maddox: Eh, it's just unori-...it's uninspired.
Dick: Oh, BOY.
Dick: Ohokay, Your Majesty.
Maddox: Yeah. (smiles)
Dick: Bring in a...bring in a jester with a mortar board on so he's...he can entertain you properly.
Maddox: Well, lemme get to the point. When I said that Vine is a platform that doesn't really...isn't really conducive to editing, say that during the beginning of that clip...
Maddox: ...you said, "Okay, go!" and you recorded that person saying "Okay, go!" and there was that few seconds of dead air when they're setting up the stupid little gimmick, right?
Maddox: Because Vine is so completely disposable, nobody cares to edit that out. Nobody cares to go back, clean it up, give it another try, give it another take; you do it in one shot, you put it up there...
Maddox: ...and, "Hey, it's disposable, man! It's only 6 seconds. Who doesn't have 6 seconds to spare?"
Dick: But isn't that Twitter? Like, you're on Twitter doing the same thing.
Maddox: I don't like Twitter either.
Dick: But you do it!
Maddox: I hate Twitter. I use Twitter...
Dick: You're not answering the question.
Maddox: I use Twitter because it's ubiquitous. Look, man. The reason I use Twitter...I hate Facebook and I'm still on Facebook. I hate Twitter and I'm still on Twitter.
Maddox: I hate these things. Doesn't mean they're not a problem. They're definitely a problem, but I have no choice but to use them because they're so ubiquitous!
Maddox: You can't...you CAN'T be on the Internet today without Facebook and Twitter. You have to have those...those services, unfortunately.
Dick: Sean is! You're not on either of those, are you?
Sean: No, I'm on...I'm on Facebook. I never use it, but I'm also not an Internet personality.
Maddox: Yeah. As an Internet personality, as somebody who writes and creates content online...look man, the problem is the Vine stars themselves, not so much Vine. Like I said, there's some funny stuff on Vine. But the Vine stars themselves are entitled assholes. I've met a lot of 'em.
Dick: Why?? Why do you say that? 'Cause I don't get that at all from these clips.
Maddox: Dick, I gave you...I gave you examples!
Dick: Okay, the kid's racist. Is that one of the examples?
Maddox: Sure, yeah.
Dick: He's making racist jokes.
Dick: Like a young kid would.
Maddox: Right, right, right. But so many Vine stars are accused of rape, 'cause these guys think they're invincible! And there's one guy in particular, this guy's name's Curtis Lepore. He's a Vine star accused of raping another Vine star, Jessi Smiles -- that clip that I played earlier?
Maddox: So he took a plea deal, and then he started talkin' shit about her IMMEDIATELY. (Dick laughs) Immediately on Twitter!
Sean: To be fair, he only lasted 6 seconds. (Dick bursts out laughing)
Maddox: Oh my gosh, Sean... (apprehensively) The nature of the platform MAY attract people like this, because they have no regard for the audience, they have no regard for their art form; they don't care.
Dick: That guy had to get spoons! That was...SOME preparation. (Sean laughs in the background)
Maddox: Nah. Yeah, he had to walk into his kitchen? They make lots of money, they're millionaires -
Dick: (interjects) I didn't know that! You didn't mention THAT.
Maddox: Yeah, they're millionaires!
Dick: I didn't know that!
Maddox: These kids are millionaires. Yeah, they're millionaires. You don't think it's an entitled attitude to rape somebody? They're entitled pricks! That's my problem with these guys.
Maddox: They're just awful people.
Dick: I've never thought of Vine stars before this conversation.
Maddox: Yeah. You've never met one.
Maddox: You know, there's exceptions of course, but for the most part they're awful people. Where the fuck is this fame coming from? 'Cause I see the videos, and they're just not funny. They're lame...like the "Satan's butthole" joke, which you thought was hilarious. Um...
Dick: Well, it made me chuckle.
Maddox: Sure! Well...
Dick: For what it is.
Maddox: ...then you're its demo, man! What can I say? (Dick scoffs) But, uh, yeah. Their FANS seem like awful people, and the Vine stars seem like awful people.
Maddox: Anyway, subscribe to my Vine channel. (everyone laughs) Anyway Dick, that's my problem. What's your problem this week?
Dick: My problem is the BBC!
Maddox: BBC? What's wrong with the BBC? I like the BBC.
Dick: Fuck you, man. Are you aware that they, uh, that they killed Top Gear this week? The BBC did?
Dick: You aware?
Dick: I didn't...apparently I'm the only...out of 350 million Top Gear fans worldwide, viewers, I'm apparently, like, the only person I know who watched this show.
Maddox: Yeah, I didn't -
Dick: (interjects) 'Cause no one else knew that.
Maddox: You know, I ca-...if it was on every now and then, I'd be flippin' through the channels and I'd stop and watch for a minute or two, but it was kind of, um...it was kinda boring.
Dick: Yeah. Well, it's the only thing in life that I...loved. (Maddox chuckles)
Maddox: Oh yeah?
Dick: It's the only thing I've ever loved.
Maddox: They killed your baby?
Dick: Outside of my immediate family.
Dick: Yeah. And they took it from me.
Maddox: Top Gear?
Dick: The BBC took Top Gear from me.
Maddox: Yeah, just watch reruns!
Dick: I do! I watch several every day.
Maddox: Alright, problem...problem solved.
Dick: But I need new episodes.
Maddox: Well, thanks for listening, guys! Tune in next week. (Sean laughs in the background)
Dick: So they fired Jeremy Clarkson. Did you know that?
Dick: You knew that. Do you know why?
Maddox: I heard that he punched, uh, one of the producers on the show.
Dick: There was a...there was a fracas.
Dick: A fr-...a "fracah." I think I...I don't know.
Maddox: Oh, is that how you pronounce it? (amused)
Dick: Yeah. I don't know what happened.
Dick: The narrative that everyone has immediately latched onto on the Internet is that big-shot entitled celebrity Jeremy Clarkson shows up at a hotel and, for no reason...because he doesn't have a hot steak, explodes with verbal and physical violence on a producer he's worked with for over a decade.
Dick: (yells) That is the...that's the narrative that the Internet is willing to IMMEDIATELY believe.
Maddox: Well, the -
Dick: (interjects) That a man who is -- go ahead.
Maddox: Who's this coming from?
Dick: What do you mean?
Maddox: This narrative.
Dick: Well, the narrative is, uh...just what's out in the media. Clarkson isn't saying what happened, the other guy Oisin isn't saying what happened publicly.
Dick: Obviously, 'cause it's their lives and their jobs and their reputations on the line.
Dick: The BBC's investigation didn't really disclose anything more than that.
Dick: Other than that there was a fight, uh, there were...name-calling happened, and that there was a physical altercation, and then afterwards the producer elected to go to the hospital 'cause he got his lip busted and he was "feeling dizzy."
Dick: Right? That's it. That's the narrative.
Dick: That people are immediately willing to believe.
Dick: So, BBC fires Clarkson.
Maddox: Well, the BBC did...Dick, it sounds like the BBC did their internal investigation. They apparently did find some evidence that, uh, that supported these claims, right? This story, this narrative. They just didn't disclose it.
Maddox: Right, so this guy...this guy punched one of his employees and, uh...I mean, it seems...I feel like even the most...you know, the biggest fans of this show are saying, "Yeah, that guy shoulda gotten fired."
Dick: The BIGGEST fans?
Dick: Oh, no. Absolutely not. The biggest fans don't give a fuck...the biggest fans wouldn't care if Jeremy Clarkson punched out the queen.
Dick: They would want him on TV.
Maddox: Sounds like Vine sta-...uh, Vine fans.
Dick: Yeah, maybe!
Dick: I don't know. It's just...what annoys me about it is that they're ready to believe, like, a grown man would just wig out for something so small, but I can easily imagine sets of scenarios where maybe there was an altercation that isn't so outlandishly crazy. Like, the narrative on the Internet I read is, "Well, you assaulted a coworker! You should get fired!" It's like, "Yeah, well, they also...on the show they also press the hosts until their breaking points."
Dick: Like in challenges?
Dick: Like, they purposefully screw with them by depriving them of, like, sleep and comfort and FOOD.
Dick: And then if you're dealing with a gigantic celebrity like that...an artist, essentially? You know, like a rock star or a painter or a creator...
Maddox: A Vine star, sure.
Dick: A Vine star, sure! You push them to this point in their job, and then someone kind of fucks with them a little bit? I can easily see that blowing up into a physical altercation.
Dick: And I don't know what happened.
Dick: But I'm just saying, a lot of...big gray area.
Maddox: I thought he was drunk. I heard that he was drunk and this happened at a bar.
Dick: Uh, it happened in a hotel.
Maddox: Oh, in a hotel.
Dick: A possible...you know what might've happened? Uh, they got there a little late...kitchen was allegedly closed, right?
Dick: So the guy brings out a stack of cold meats and cheese.
Dick: Says "Here you go. You've been...you haven't eaten for 24 hours, we've been fuckin' with ya. Uh, here's a bunch of meats and cheeses."
Dick: Yeah! That's just okay? You're supposed to just eat it and go to bed and that's it?
Maddox: Yeah, fuck off! Or you could get nothing. It's something, it's meat and cheese! That's some-...that's a dish that people order at tapas restaurants, meat and cheese.
Dick: Alright. (dismissively)
Maddox: That's like high-end food! Charcuterie, right? That's what they call it?
Dick: Ha! I guess.
Dick: I guess.
Maddox: What's wrong with that?
Dick: It would be an unpleasant surprise to me if I'd been busting my hump for a day and getting my ass kicked around...
Maddox: Big plate of meat and cheese??
Dick: ...to put this show together, and I show up and some asshole didn't bother to set up dinner.
Maddox: So what, you just start punching producers? That's what you would do?
Dick: That's...I'm not saying that's what I would do!
Dick: I'm just saying, did that happen?
Dick: I don't know. I'm just saying, it's not CRAZY to imagine that a, uh, an *artist* would react in an unhinged manner...
Dick: ...when provoked constantly.
Maddox: This is an interesting problem, Dick, because you're defending what sounds like an entitled artist.
Maddox: Just like a Vine star. (smiles)
Dick: Oh, I'm...I...yeah!! I want Top Gear back! (Maddox chuckles) I want Clarkson back!
Maddox: You don't care? (amused)
Dick: I don't fuckin' care! I DON'T CARE.
Dick: (yells) I don't care! I don't need to pretend that I'm in a world...that I live in a world policing everyone's actions from my FUCKING keyboard.
Maddox: Yeah, but by supporting them, Dick, by supporting them you support this bad behavior, just like the Vine stars who have their fans who like them in spite of the racist and homophobic things that they say. Nonono -
Dick: (interjects) All I'm saying is, I'm supporting a world where you might get roughed up if you fuck up. If you screw up when you're working on a big production for creative purposes and you screw up enough? Uh, you might have to get into an altercation! That's...that's the worldview I support.
Maddox: Hmm. Yeah, I don't know about that, Dick. I don't know about...I don't know that you have to get in an altercation. Why should...why should somebody who's working...look, this producer?
Maddox: Who got punched? He was just comin' to work.
Dick: You don't know that!! Nobody knows! Nobody knows what actually happened.
Maddox: So you're saying that there could be some justification for why the kid was punched.
Dick: Yeah! Oh yeah.
Dick: Not a kid either.
Maddox: How old is he?
Dick: Somebody who had been workin' on that show for a LONG time.
Dick: Somebody who knew EXACTLY who he was dealing with.
Sean: Nice drive-by, though.
Dick: Yeah! Yeah, "some kid," right? (amused)
Sean: Yeah, just slipped that right in there.
Maddox: Wasn't he young though? Wasn't he some producer?
Dick: He was younger than 54!
Dick: Which is Clarkson's age, by the way.
Maddox: I thought he was, like, in his 30s or somethin'.
Dick: That's not a kid, bro.
Maddox: Well, comparatively!
Dick: COMPARATIVELY, YOU'RE IN THE PRIME OF YOUR LIFE! You should be able take down a 55-year-old man with one hand tied behind your back!!
Maddox: Yeah, but look man, you're in a position where your boss just punched you. What, are you supposed to trade blows with him and get fired?
Dick: Of course! (Maddox guffaws) Get fired.
Maddox: Get fired?
Dick: Right? There's no...nonono. There's no defending it! That's their...they can do whatever they want.
Maddox: What, the bosses?
Dick: Yeah! No, the BBC.
Maddox: The BBC, yeah.
Dick: Yeah. "Clarkson? You make us a billion dollars, but you assaulted this guy. Gotta fire you."
Dick: That's not up to me!
Dick: I'd rather have the show back; not up to me.
Dick: I'm not defending beating up coworkers...
Maddox: Yeah. (chuckles)
Dick: ...uh, I just want the show back.
Maddox: Dick, it sounds an awful lot like you ARE defending beating up coworkers.
Dick: Yeah, because in MY world I don't care if that happens. There's a big...and there's a big difference.
Sean: You just wanna be entertained.
Dick: Yeah, I just wanna be entertained, and every time somebody says "How would YOU feel if a coworker blah blah blah?" I'm like, "I don't care!"
Dick: I don't care. Doesn't bother me.
Maddox: Yep, these are the Vine fans, man! "I don't care if this guy's racist or he punched another person; he assaulted somebody, his employee..."
Dick: Mmm... (skeptical)
Maddox: Look man, if Clarkson had gotten in an altercation at a bar and he punched somebody, that's a totally different thing. But he punched his own employee. You think that's cool?
Dick: It's not...first of all, it's not HIS employee. It's a guy that works under him.
Maddox: Oh, you don't think that he could get that guy fired?
Dick: I don't think making a television show is the same thing as making cardboard boxes. That's one problem I have with it. The entire point of the show is FUCKING with the presenters.
Dick: It's screwing with them directly to get them to react poorly on camera.
Maddox: Did, uh, did Clarkson defend himself when this came out?
Dick: No, he reported himself.
Maddox: He reported himself!
Dick: He said, "This happened...uh, sorry." (Maddox chuckles) "I'd like to apologize to everybody involved."
Maddox: Don't you think that's enough verification that this happened? The fact that...I don't know.
Dick: What do you mean, "verification"?
Maddox: That he...well, you're saying that the BBC story...they investigated it, but it wasn't verified. Don't you think that, uh, that -
Dick: (interjects) No no, it was...it was VERIFIED...
Dick: ...but there's no context given.
Dick: You see what I'm saying?
Maddox: (stammers) You're saying that there...that there could be some context that could exist that could justify him just punching this dude.
Dick: And he didn't *just* punch a dude; there was a row. (slowly for emphasis) There was a struggle. There was a row.
Maddox: A row, yeah.
Dick: Whatever you wanna call it.
Dick: Yeah. He didn't just walk up and cold-cock him.
Maddox: Yeah. Uh, so -
Dick: (interjects) At least I don't know! That's not how it's presented though.
Maddox: But he didn't defend himself.
Dick: Not that I KNOW of, no!
Maddox: So I could make the case...uh, I could see that if he didn't defend himself, it could be because he was hoping that the BBC would be lenient towards him if he admitted guilt and culpability, just like a judge would if you admitted...if you pled guilty instead of trying to defend yourself of something where there was overwhelming evidence that you committed the crime.
Maddox: However...so, so...
Maddox: ...maybe! Maybe he may have done that.
Maddox: However, they fired him. The show's pretty much over, right?
Dick: Fired him, two hosts quit right alongside him...
Maddox: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dick: ...so they can all go work on Netflix. (cynical tone)
Maddox: Uh, yeah.
Maddox: Big deal. Of course, yeah.
Maddox: The show's gonna go on, Dick. It's not a big deal. The BBC...look Dick, put yourself in the shoes of the BBC for a minute. Say you ran a wildly successful show...
Maddox: ...and this happens, and you're running a multi-billion-dollar organization.
Maddox: Or hundreds of millions, at least.
Maddox: And, uh...there's a population out there, there's a big growing chorus of people who are saying, "Hey man, you gonna tolerate this? You gonna tolerate your...you know, one of your celebrities, one of your producers, one of your show runners here, uh, punching each other out and creating this kind of work environment? This hostile -- literally hostile work environment?"
Maddox: "You guys are gonna tolerate that? And potentially lose...risk losing - "
Dick: (interjects) Lose revenue, right?
Maddox: "You're gonna lose revenue," right.
Dick: Here we go.
Dick: So THIS is where I started my investigation.
Dick: You know how the BBC stays afloat? You know how they get all their fuckin' funding?
Maddox: How's that?
Dick: Everybody in the UK has to pay 145 pounds every year to the BBC if they own a television. (incredulous)
Dick: Did you know that?
Maddox: No, I didn't know that.
Dick: Can you imagine that??
Sean: That's like mandatory PBS.
Dick: Mandatory...it's like, it's like...it's even worse than mandatory PBS. It's like as though every person in America had to give 200 dollars to the FCC so they could run a gigantic billion-dollar television network. (slowly for emphasis)
Maddox: Uh, wait, how is that different than PBS? Because PBS is tax-funded. PBS, for those who are listening abroad, is kind of like our...our version of the BBC.
Maddox: It's Public...what is it, Public Broadcasting Station?
Dick: Yeah. Make it PBS, then.
Maddox: PBS. So it's similar to PBS. PBS is tax-funded.
Sean: You're right...yeah, I was wrong about that. Obviously it's not all done through donations, even though they do that too.
Maddox: Yeah, they do...they take donations as well. I don't know, the BBC sounds like they're completely tax-funded, but -
Dick: (interjects) Oh no, they have...they do make money on the side. They make another billion pounds just selling ads and commercials.
Dick: So their operating budget SHOULD BE a billion pounds a year.
Dick: INSTEAD, because everybody in the country has to pay 215 dollars -- American -- to the company, they're operating at 5 billion.
Maddox: Why is that a problem?
Dick: Why is it a...? Why is it a problem to have a, uh...mandatory tax funding a news organization?
Dick: You don't...do you think it's a problem for the state and the media to be basically one entity?
Maddox: Uh, I... (stammers)
Dick: That the state forces you to fund their own media conglomerate?
Maddox: Well, as long as it's a separate arm, it's a separate branch, you can't just collude the BBC with the state, because some of the best reporting I've seen ANYWHERE has come from the BBC.
Maddox: They do some really good reporting.
Dick: So why throw the baby out with the bath water? Right?
Maddox: I just don't see it...I just don't see it as a problem to, uh, to get funding -
Dick: (interjects) How much censor-...how much censorship would it take on the part of the BBC for you to see it as a problem?
Dick: Lemme ask you that.
Maddox: If there was censorship -
Dick: (interjects) Any!
Dick: Okay! Um...here we go, "Reinventing the Royals"! A documentary critical of Prince Charles trying to rebuild his image after the death of his wife...
Dick: ...er, the death of his ex-wife, was pulled because it was considered a "hatchet job" and it was critical of Prince Charles.
Maddox: Who, uh, who pulled it?
Dick: The BBC!
Dick: There's nobody...there's NOBODY checking the balances between, then!
Maddox: Well, that's a problem.
Dick: Oh yeah, that's problem! Commonwealth Games documentary...Mark Beaumont, the presenter, was filmed grappling with a judo champion, this girl. Right? He says, "I'm not..." He loses, of course, 'cause it's television. Uh, "I'm not sure I can live that down -- being beaten by a 19-year-old girl." They cut out the "girl" part.
Maddox: Yeah, I actually -
Dick: (interjects) Offensive!
Maddox: I actually mentioned that, I believe, in Episode #3, Dick.
Maddox: I brought that specific example in.
Dick: So how did you not know that there's censorship happening there?
Maddox: Well, yeah, but that was... (sighs) That wasn't at the behest of the government. That was, uh...again, that was, like, people outcrying. They were saying, "Oh, you're usin' the word 'girl' as an insult there." That's why I brought that in in the "Other N-Words" episode.
Maddox: I said that the G-word is now censored.
Dick: What's the difference between the government and the company if the company is funded with mandatory television fees? Um...so you get a TV in the UK.
Dick: Right? You have it, you take it home, just like it is in America.
Dick: Right? You have to pay! You have to send this involuntarily. If you DON'T, they put everybody who owns a TV in something called the LASSY database.
Dick: A database, a system to catch fee evaders.
Maddox: Fee evaders. Okay, so I did the math, Dick. It comes to about 12 pounds a month, right?
Maddox: That's like 15 U.S. dollars a month for BBC -
Dick: (interjects) Like 20. 19.
Maddox: Is it?
Maddox: Okay. So...I don't know, I haven't done the math for PBS funding. I'd imagine it's probably around that.
Dick: You think PBS gets...gets 5 billion U.S. dollars every year?
Maddox: No, probably not 5 billion. That seems like a lot.
Dick: Yeah, that's a...there's no way!
Maddox: But is that...is that the entire BBC fund, including advertising revenue?
Dick: No, the entire...BBC gets 3.7 million a year from fees, and then another billion on top of that. Pounds. Another billion from ad revenue on top of that.
Maddox: Oh, so...so that's a very minuscule amount, man. 3 million...3 million pounds?
Dick: It's 3 BILLION.
Maddox: Oh, 3 billion.
Dick: 3.7 billion.
Maddox: Oh, BILLION. Okay.
Dick: 75 percent of their funding is because the government sends agents to harass you to pay for this television network. Can you imagine if they did that with either Fox News or CNN or MSNBC here? Any...ANY gigantic media conglomerate. Because one way or the other, half of the country disagrees with what they're saying.
Maddox: Yeah, but Dick, the PBS and BBC...generally I trust them as news sources because they are less biased, they are more balanced, they do look at both sides of the stories. And despite the Republican -- the conservative outcry in this country against NPR...
Maddox: ...and saying NPR and PBS and these -- NPR stands for National Public Radio.
Maddox: They say that, uh, that it's left-leaning and it's biased, and this and that.
Maddox: It's really not. It's...it's the most balanced source you can get news from in this country.
Dick: That's YOU saying that! The other side radically disagrees with that! Like, can you entertain that idea, that that is one side...like, the people who have their voice being represented agree that it's biased, but the people who feel that their voice is NOT being represented think that's it's *incredibly* biased.
Maddox: Well, that's also because they are not able to get those loudmouth Rush Limbaughs on the air. They have...first of all, the conservatives are being fed those talking points by their, uh, their thought leaders, like the Bill O'Reillys and Rush Limbaughs and the Laura Ingrahams and the Glenn Becks, and I can go on, yada yada yada.
Dick: I don't think that they control the entire conservative populace of the U.S.
Maddox: They're the mouthpiece for the conservative populace for the U.S.!
Dick: You think all Republicans...
Dick: ...just, like, "Yep, Rush Limbaugh! That's what I'm talkin' about."
Maddox: No, not all Republicans, but they are the loudest voices for those. There is no alt-...there is no liberal Rush Limbaugh. Who's the closest thing to Rush Limbaugh for the liberals? What do you got? Keith Olbermann? Come on!
Maddox: There's no one...no one even comes CLOSE to Rush Limbaugh's reach!
Dick: In what...what do you mean, "in reach"?
Maddox: In his...in his radio audience.
Dick: You don't think Jon Stewart...you don't think The Daily Show is a tremendously left-leaning...uh, news source?
Maddox: They are left-leaning, but they still criticize the demogr-...I wouldn't say that The Daily Show is balanced. Don't put words in my mouth. The Daily Show is not even close to balanced.
Dick: I'm not saying you are! I'm saying that's a pretty equal thing in my opinion. Rush Limbaugh and...The Daily Show?
Maddox: Yeah, but that's ONE show on a comedy network versus the entire Fox News network! Look, we're gettin' derailed here, but like, there is NOTHING...nothing that even comes close. What I'm saying is PBS and BBC -- I have found way more balanced reporting that comes out of those news sources. Why do you think that is? Why is that they are producing more balanced news than, say, CNN or Fox News or MSNBC?
Dick: Well, because they don't have to sell ads, obviously.
Maddox: Okay, so they don't have to sell...so I think that...then you're makin' a case for, uh, tax-funded news organizations, if they don't -
Dick: (interjects) I'm REALLY not. (Maddox laughs) I'm ABSOLUTELY not.
Maddox: If...yeah. Okay, well, if they're not...so why do you think that...do you think that, uh, that you can get balanced news from the BBC or PBS?
Dick: What do you mean? Do I think it's possible?
Dick: Of course! You can get balanced news from anyone.
Maddox: You can. Uh, do you think it's more likely to come from PBS or BBC, or Fox News?
Dick: From the BBC! Fox News is specifically NOT balanced!
Maddox: Right. (chuckling)
Dick: They're not even news! It's just repeating something that came off of the news wire and putting a conservative spin on it.
Maddox: Right. But, so it's more...so you agree it's more likely to come from BBC and PBS?
Maddox: Okay, so then that's...that's my whole argument, is that BBC...there is a reason for these networks to exist.
Dick: So you're for it? As long as you're not paying for it.
Maddox: No, I...I think it's important -
Dick: (interjects) 'Cause England's...if you live in England, you're fuckin' paying for this to exist.
Maddox: Yeah, I think it's important to pay for, uh, for some kind of unbiased, clean news source that is non-political.
Dick: Well, that's controlled by the state. Don't forget that.
Maddox: Yeah, that...that is a...
Dick: They whitewash, or have you ever heard...oh yeah, the Jimmy Savile thing? The guy that raped, like, 500 underage kids and was a television presenter? Wasn't -
Sean: (interjects) He was a HUGE star!
Sean: He was a huge star.
Dick: HUGE star!
Maddox: For BBC One? Was that the guy, the Indian dude?
Dick: Nonononono, that was... (cracks up) That was ANOTHER guy!
Dick: This guy was in like the '60s and '70s. He ran, like, Top of the Pops...he was like our Dick Clark.
Maddox: Um...no, I hadn't heard of this guy. He raped over 500 kids?
Dick: Uh, allegedly.
Dick: So he died...
Dick: ...he died, the investigation started; they were uncovering all this crazy, um...all these heinous acts, and uh, then the documentary wasn't aired. Now, some might say it conflicted with the, um, the honorariums that they were showing at the time, because this is a...this man is a presenter, a beloved presenter.
Dick: And they were broadcasting, you know, "in loving memory of this," and these...
Dick: ...these specials about him, and this documentary exploring his depraved history of sex abuse, of committing sex crimes...
Dick: ...would conflict with the narrative.
Maddox: Right, right.
Maddox: You know, the censorship pissed me off, Dick. And I'm not gonna say that, uh...I'm not gonna discount the fact that these...the BBC might be being censored. You're right! That is, uh, that is a concern. Unless we have any evidence, though, that that's actually occurring and how OFTEN it's occurring, because I know for a fact that Fox News censors certain information. Like, for example -
Dick: (interjects) Yeah, but you don't have to pay for Fox News!
Maddox: Uh, yeah, that's true.
Dick: That's a big difference!
Dick: It's a BIG difference.
Dick: Fox News is...only has to answer to advertisers.
Dick: You want them to go away? Stop watchin'.
Dick: You want the BBC to go away? You can't! Because the government sends AGENTS TO YOUR HOUSE to shake you down for this money.
Dick: They call you, they harass you, they send guys to your house with portable devices that can detect how many TVs you have on in your own fucking house!
Maddox: Really? They have those?
Dick: YES. Absolutely true. They have VANS, and they advertise that "we have vans, and we will find you." It's SO pervasive that, uh...you know the British girl that I used to date for a long time?
Dick: She said her and her brother were...they were poor. They were broke poor when they were kids. They were AFRAID when they were home and their parents couldn't afford this TV licensing fee...
Dick: ...that the government would send agents out to do...something. They didn't know 'cause they were kids, but they were afraid of this boogie man lurking in the shadows, coming to collect their FUCKING BBC fee.
Maddox: Right. So to play devil's advocate here, Dick, you don't have to own a TV. You don't have to pay for BBC, you don't have to own a TV! You don't have to do anything.
Dick: There you go. (chuckling)
Maddox: Don't buy a TV!
Dick: Don't buy...don't buy a TV. (amused)
Maddox: Hey man, you buy a radio...you buy a car with a radio; like, some percentage of the fee of the radio goes towards funding the FCC, doesn't it?
Dick: I don't know.
Maddox: I believe...
Dick: I'm sure it does.
Maddox: The radio industry has to pay taxes to the FCC.
Dick: So do you...do you support the FCC? Do you think THAT'S a good thing?
Dick: 'Cause that's a whole 'nother...I think THEY'RE a bunch of crooked scumbags as well, but I don't have to pay 215 dollars every year to support 'em!
Maddox: Well, you don't know...you don't know -- you haven't done the math. We're probably paying -
Dick: (interjects) I DON'T have to pay 200...I do not have to pay 200 dollars a year to support the FCC.
Maddox: Well, we...
Dick: I know that.
Maddox: ...we don't...maybe not 200, but we don't know what percentage of our taxes goes towards that. The FCC. The FCC has done some good things and some bad things. The FCC...probably in recent years more bad than good, but uh, you can't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Dick: I mean, if you say so!
Dick: I think that they're a bad organization!
Maddox: So this sounds like a lot of, uh...what was it, sour pussies? Sour grapes for, uh...just 'cause they canceled your show, Dick.
Dick: No, I think they're a bad...I think they're a legitimately bad organization. I first started looking into this...
Dick: This Twitter account retweeted one of my Jeremy Clarkson jokes.
Dick: 'Cause I sat around all day making...
Maddox: Yeah, I noticed. (smiles)
Dick: ...like, Jeremy Clarkson jokes. (cracking up)
Dick: I think I lost a bunch of followers doin' it.
Dick: Um, it was called...it was @BanTheBBC, or something like that. And he's, like, a serious Twitter account.
Dick: On why it's bad. Why it's bad to have, like, a state-funded media...
Dick: That's one of the biggest in the world. Why that would be bad.
Maddox: It's scary, because it could lend itself towards propaganda.
Dick: It almost...
Maddox: State media.
Dick: ...specifically DOES. Like, how could it not?
Maddox: Well, obviously it's not doing that in, uh, in the UK.
Dick: Yeah. Women on panel shows? You hear about this?
Maddox: No, what is it?
Dick: Uh, the actress...2009, Victoria Wood stated that the BBC panel shows were "too male-dominated." So February 2014, TV execs said there would be no longer all-male comedy panel shows on the BBC, and shows MUST contain women.
Maddox: Yeah, that's shitty.
Dick: Yeah! The journalist, uh...somebody, Caitlin Moran, referred to tokenism already existing on such shows...blah blah blah blah blah. So...
Maddox: You know, I...
Dick: How 'bout that?
Maddox: ...I don't understand how women stand for that. If I was a woman and I got cast for a show, or I got hired for a job, I would want to know that it's because I was the most qualified candidate, male or female. If I'm a woman and this law exists...
Maddox: ...or this, uh, this stipulation exists that they have to have a certain number of women on a cast, or as a show, or...staffed at an agency or whatever it is, I would feel insecure about my talents and abilities if this stipulation existed. I would always, in the back of my mind, wonder whether or not I was hired because I was qualified, or whether or not I was hired because I have a fucking vagina.
Maddox: I don't want to think that! I don't want to EVER think that, and I think it's condescending towards women. This is a total unrelated thing, but I think that's -
Dick: It's not unrelated!
Maddox: - SUPER condescending. Well, yeah, the BBC's employing this, but it's not...uh, unique to the BBC.
Dick: HOWEVER, if they weren't being funded by your fucking television, you go, "bloop!" CNN pulls that? Switch over to Fox News.
Dick: Switch over to ANY other network, and the network that's doin' shit you don't like fades away! BBC? Always gonna be there. They never need to work for that money. They don't need to make you happy. They could put...they could say, "It's 50 percent women! That's what we're doin'. Doesn't matter! Fuck you, you gotta pay for it."
Maddox: Yeah, I mean, I don't know, man. You're makin' the case that, uh, that this mandatory...this tax isn't mandatory, 'cause you don't have to own a TV.
Dick: Well, I think the idea that you don't have to own a TV, and that by owning a TV you HAVE to support a network that you don't necessarily agree with...
Dick: ...is as...um, totalitarian as you can get on TV.
Dick: If the choice is between not owning a television and supporting an organization whose ideals and goals you necessarily don't agree with? If those are your only two fuckin' options, that's like...that's basically "Give me liberty or give me TV death."
Maddox: Yeah. (chuckling) Um...yeah man, I don't know. This, uh, this was a mixed bag. I think that...
Dick: You think that's a mixed bag? What if they were doin' it with books or websites?
Dick: The BBC.
Maddox: What specifically?
Dick: Part of that money goes to funding websites. What if they had...uh, a Maddox ripoff?
Dick: Just a bunch of ripoffs of your articles that...that basically said the opposite, but by owning a computer you have to pay for this anti-Maddox website.
Maddox: Yeah...I mean, we kinda DO, don't we? Don't we all kind of subsidize the Internet just by paying taxes? Don't we all subsidize that infrastructure? The roads...on some level, the roads are the way that commerce happens, and...and telephone poles with, uh, with fiber lines are installed because they're able to communicate and, um...
Dick: But they're not creating comedy websites that compete with you! Or that refute YOU.
Dick: They're not making you pay for your own...demise!
Maddox: Uh, who is the BBC competing with?
Dick: Um, Channel 4? I think Sky 1 is...
Maddox: Well, Sky 1's...yeah, Sky 1's private, and that's...that's what, Rupert Murdoch's thing, right?
Dick: Yeah, and that's...that's the competition!
Dick: So they have to compete...they have to compete...you know, like normal, like we're all equal and we're competing to get your views.
Dick: AND they have to compete against every single person in the country funding their competition. That would be like you competing with...your videos competing with someone who has a budget that's covered by everyone in America.
Maddox: Uh...yeah, but I DO, Dick, because PBS has videos on YouTube, and so does...a lot of non-profit organizations!
Dick: This isn't my PBS episode.
Maddox: Yeah. (about to laugh)
Dick: This is my BBC episode.
Maddox: Yeah. I'm sure BBC has a YouTube channel too. I'm competing with not just BBC and PBS, but I'm competing with...uh, who...Viacom! I'm competing with Viacom, and I'm competing with NBCUniversal, and I'm competing with ABC.
Dick: Yeah, but they're not manda-...they're not funded by people having to pay TV licensing fees.
Dick: They're enforced by the government. Do you not...you just don't care about people showing up at your door?
Maddox: Sounds like... (cracks up)
Dick: Charging you for your TV??
Maddox: Dick, I just view it as a tax, and we pay taxes for lots of things.
Dick: So, fuck it?
Maddox: If you wanna abolish taxes...if you wanna abolish taxes, that's a different argument, but it sounds like a libertarian agenda again. (chuckling) This sounds like, "Well, we don't want any kinda government organization - "
Dick: (interjects) You just...you can't see past labeling it as a libertarian agenda, that the BBC is, like...is designed to be corrupt!
Maddox: Okay, maybe! No, I don't think it's designed to be corrupt. I think they have good intentions, and that's why I think it's more likely -
Dick: (interjects) Well-in-...good intentions!
Maddox: You...but YOU agreed, Dick, that uh, that's it's more likely to...you're more likely to get a balanced news story coming from the BBC than, say, Fox News, MSNBC, or CNN. Right?
Dick: CNN, I don't know.
Maddox: CNN's awful.
Dick: Fox News, I would say is not even designed to be, like, a news organization.
Maddox: No. But CNN...CNN are whores. They will do anything for the dollar. They don't care, they're just...they're JUST going after ratings. They will hire someone right-wing, they will hire someone left-wing; they put Nancy Grace...they give Nancy Grace a platform on their network!
Dick: Well then...yeah, then obviously not. Um...if you're lookin' for the BBC as a source of unbiased news, I don't think it needs to cost 5 billion dollars. I don't see why they get to have programs like Top Gear, for example, if they're just providing unbiased news.
Maddox: Yeah, I don't...
Dick: That seems a little far out of their charter, doesn't it?
Maddox: It does.
Dick: Seems like they could whack that fee down to like 5 dollars and still provide good, unbiased news.
Maddox: But Dick, doesn't the very existence of a show like Top Gear kind of refute your whole argument against the BBC? 'Cause a show that you love and cherish more than anything on Earth, next to your family, came out of this organization that you loathe. So it's possible that the BBC does some...SOME things right, and they greenlight some shows that you like.
Maddox: They made that possible! They made a show like Top Gear possible.
Dick: Yeah, you know, I wear Hugo Boss too. They designed the Nazis' uniforms.
Maddox: Yeah. (laughing)
Dick: Perhaps you're familiar with that?
Maddox: Oh, I'm familiar.
Dick: Yeah, that doesn't mean I support Hitler.
Dick: It just means I like Hugo Boss.
Maddox: Yeah...I dunno.
Dick: That's it! That's my problem. (Maddox laughs)
Maddox: Alright. Um -
Dick: (interjects) You're not moved by that at all?
Maddox: To an extent. The only argument that I felt like held any weight there was the censorship argument. I am...I am concerned about censorship.
Dick: How about the Hutton report?
Maddox: What's the Hutton report?
Dick: Um, Tony Blair came out and said weapons of mass destruction exist...they were like, "Uh-oh!" Remember that? He's like, uh, he's like the UK George W. Bush?
Maddox: I know who Tony Blair is, yeah. (chuckling)
Dick: Okay. And then, uh...now, this is me not being very familiar with the report.
Dick: Because, uh, it didn't happen here.
Dick: We got enough to keep track of.
Dick: But I BELIEVE one way to look at what happened was, the government had an inquiry and decided that it was all the BBC's fault, and that the government was not responsible for anything that happened. You can look it up.
Maddox: The Hutton report...is this the...is this different than the 10 Downing Street memo?
Dick: I don't know.
Maddox: The 10 Downing Street memo was presented, I believe, by Colin Powell, and it was...it turned out it came from plagiarized sources, and it was intentionally...it was plagiarized from college papers that were written before Saddam Hussein's regime was even...before the first Gulf War, I believe, and it was a bunch of plagiarized information, blah blah blah. But anyway, yeah, that's a really interesting chapter in history, which I don't think either of us are researched enough to talk about right now.
Dick: Pretty easy to get around government scandals when you can just blame it on the news. And what can they do? 'Cause you're footing the tab no matter what. They can't go away!
Maddox: Yeah. Uh, there's...there's an argument to be made for the BBC and one against. (Dick scoffs and laughs)
Maddox: Yeah. I mean, you haven't persuaded me...you haven't convinced me that it's a...that it's a bad organization. I think that just by virtue of the fact that they are more likely to produce a balanced news story than any other news organization...
Maddox: ...is their saving grace.
Dick: Well, then you should chuck in your 215 dollars for that! 'Cause everybody in the UK has to pay for that.
Maddox: Ah, I'm not a UK member. I don't give a shit.
Dick: Oh, fuck 'em?
Maddox: Yeah. (laughs)
Dick: Right? (laughs) What if I gave you 200 dollars to agree with me? Then would you see it my way? 'Cause that's what they're faced with.
Maddox: I'll tell you...I'll...no, I won't. I won't.
Dick: That's my...that's my problem. I really -- fuck them for taking away my Top Gear. (Maddox laughs)
Maddox: That's what this is really about!
Dick: Thank God my brother-in-law has Netflix. I can steal... (cracks up) When it comes out on Netflix, I can watch it there.
Maddox: Yeah, of course it's just gonna come out someplace else. Yeah. Another company that has no scruples about hiring someone who punches someone...you know what, man? Look, he's uh, he's punished, he lost his job; what more do you want? I don't think this guy should be punished for the rest of his life. He's gonna get a show on Netflix.
Maddox: And then you can be happy watchin' it on Netflix.
Dick: Well, if it's the same!
Maddox: AND, you won't even...you will deny the thanks that they deserve for even creating the show that you love so much.
Dick: Jeremy Clarkson created that show! It existed before him and it SUCKED.
Maddox: Well, the...the process...the, uh, what's the name...the mechanism to create a show like that, to make a show like that as successful as it was and to fund it and produce it...
Maddox: ...existed because of the BBC, which you won't even acknowledge.
Dick: Yeah! It's a BBC show! (stammers) I have to acknowledge a FACT?!
Maddox: No no, you won't acknowledge that this or-...this mechanism was responsible for creating this show.
Dick: No -
Maddox: (interjects) For allowing...for allowing a show like Top Gear to flourish.
Dick: Uh, no, I don't agree with that.
Maddox: You don't. (amused)
Dick: I don't.
Maddox: Well, my problem's Vine Stars. (Dick cracks up)
Dick: My problem's, uh, the BBC.
(closing riff starts)
Maddox: Alright, don't forget to vote on these problems at http://thebiggestproblemintheuniverse.com. Thanks for listening, and uh, thanks for supporting the show! Check out the bonus episode this week.
Dick: Yeah! Thanks for listening.
Voicemail (male caller): Guys, love the show. Uh, could you do me a huge favor and stop talking over Sean the moment you ask him for his fucking opinion, you assholes? (Maddox laughs) Thank you. And Dick, last thing: not a big deal, just go fuck yourself.
Dick: Ahhh. (exasperated)
Maddox: Yeah, not a big deal, Dick. Go fuck yourself. What do you think about that, Sean?
Sean: You know -
Maddox: (interjects) (buzzer sound effect)
Dick: Sean, we don't really interrupt you. (everyone laughs)
Sean: No, you know what I DO -
Maddox: (interjects) (buzzer sound effect) (laughs with Dick)
Sean: You know what I do?
Maddox: What do you do, Sean?
Sean: I, uh -
Maddox: (interjects) (buzzer sound effect) (laughs more)
Sean: I jump on you guys kinda too much sometimes. I don't wait to start a sentence.
Maddox: No, not at all -
Dick: (interjects) That's true, you do jump on us way too much.
Sean: I do that. (Dick laughs)
Maddox: No, you...but sometimes Sean has to, because the way we're arranged in this studio, we're not lookin' at each other necessarily. So sometimes we don't see if Sean needs to chime in, so he'll just have to, like, come in.
Maddox: And another thing, sometimes Sean...Sean is busy doing his audio engineer stuff, so when we ask Sean a question, we give him -
Sean: (interjects) I'm watchin' the computer. (Dick laughs)
Maddox: Yeah, we... (cracks up)
Maddox: We gave him...we give him a few seconds to get his mic prepped up and everything ready to go to talk. So sometimes that may come across as we're jumping on his lines. [Dick plays next voicemail message]
Voicemail (male caller): Hey, what's up guys? This is Zach from North Carolina. Uh, love what you do and everything, um, but I was listenin' to this episode...I didn't know that Utah had all those restrictions on alcohol, though being enlightened to such a fact makes it a lot more obvious why Maddox would fall for something as shitty as Fireball cinnamon whiskey.
Voicemail: No wonder! 3.2 on the beer, can't sell wine in the stores; he must've saw Fireball cinnamon whiskey and shit a platinum fuckin' brick.
Maddox: Ugh. (Dick laughs)
Voicemail: Uh, well, that's all I have. Good comment, good show, all that. Um...Dick, go fuck yourself.
Maddox: Yeah. Uh, you know what, asshole? I...I love spice. You guys can attest, I love spice. I love spicy things. I like cinnamon whiskey because it's cinnamon, and cinnamon is spice. I put spice in my coffee, I like spice all the time! Cinnamon's the BEST flavor.
Dick: Yeah, I wonder what it tastes like to you. Cinnamon.
Maddox: Tastes incredible.
Dick: It just tastes like dust to me.
Dick: Like kinda sweet dust. I dunno.
Maddox: Did you...did you eat the wrong thing? What are you eating?
Dick: Just cinnamon! Like, it's not that great!
Maddox: GAHH! (Dick laughs) Cinnamon's INCREDIBLE! What are you talkin' about??
Dick: Eh, I guess not.
Maddox: Stick to your smoky bullshit, buddy.
Dick: Alright. [plays next voicemail message]
Voicemail (male caller): Hey guys, my name is Nick Sweitzer and this may be a long call, and I apologize in advance for that.
Maddox: Ohh, fuck. (in unison with Dick)
Voicemail: But I wanted to bring something up from a previous problem...
Sean: Well, that's WHY it's long. (Dick laughs)
Voicemail: ...Maddox brought up about people who turn left.
Dick: I cut it up a bit, too.
Dick: It was long.
Voicemail: You made the case that left turns are terrible, but then I hear Dick saying that he zones out driving sometimes, and I immediately think, "That's really dangerous!" I thought I misheard him, and then a few seconds later he reiterates, "I like to zone out while driving."
Voicemail: Now I don't wanna be another generic guy who hates on Dick, because I've been a fan of him for years, ever since you did the Mega64 Marcus' Corner episode...
Dick: I think that was the end of the call. Right? (Maddox chuckles)
Dick: That should've been the end.
Voicemail: ...because I've loved those guys for YEARS now. It's where I found out about him, so it kinda hurts me to say this, but Dick, what the HELL are you DOING, man?
Dick: Do you agree with this?
Maddox: He's sacrificing himself.
Voicemail: You cannot go ahead and criticize Maddox for driving like a madman...
Maddox: Yeah, he makes a good point.
Voicemail: ...and a samurai when you are zoning in and out...
Maddox: Zoning out while you're driving?
Voicemail: ...probably thinking about hairy packages!
Voicemail: I'm sure Maddox would agree that driving requires 100 percent attention, or at least 99 percent if you're trying to snort cinnamon Fireball whiskey (Maddox cracks up) on the dashboard, while stopped to left turn, but you weren't paying attention 'cause you zoned out!
Maddox: Yeah, man...
Voicemail: Bottom line: kids...
Maddox: JESUUUUS. (Dick cackles)
Voicemail: (inaudible) ...while they're driving, make sure that driving is the number one thing on your mind...
Dick: Oh, PSA now.
Voicemail: ...or you'll be like Dick. Keep up the great work, you guys, and Sean: you do an awesome job every week... (Dick and Maddox laugh)
Maddox: OKAY. (annoyed)
Voicemail: ...and you deserve MUCH more credit.
Maddox: Oh, man.
Voicemail: Alright, thanks guys.
Dick: That's the CUT version. Do you agree with that?
Sean: I thought that was the best call we ever had! (Maddox laughs)
Maddox: Okay, Sean. (Sean laughs) 'Cause he kissed your ass. Listen, I got, uh, I got a phrase for this guy. ( sound clip of Dick saying, "Three little words.") SHORTER. (everyone laughs) Uh, yeah man, zoning out is dangerous! It takes 100 percent attention when you're drivin' like a samurai. (Dick sighs) You can't be zoning off; you gotta be paying attention 100 percent of the time. That's why I don't text when I drive, I don't talk to anybody when I drive...girls HATE it when I drive next to them. (yelling) You know what? Except they're super impressed and they're horned up by the end... (stammers) Whenever we go, they're all horned up and ready for sex because they're turned on by my driving skills. (smiles)
Dick: Wow! (chuckling)
Dick: Yeah, I uh...I think it's really easy to say it takes 100 percent of your concentration to drive, but uh, it just doesn't.
Maddox: (yells) Dick, am I...?! I have one hand on the horn, I have one hand hanging out the window ready to flip people off and signal people, to wave myself into traffic, wave out of traffic, wave people -- "Go on! Get in the lane, get outta the lane!" It's a full thing! It's a full-contact sport for me, man.
Dick: Like, this guy doesn't just sit at a light and just kinda wait for it to change? Like, that doesn't take 100 percent of your concentrating. You're sitting there, kind of like looking at a billboard or thinking about the podcast, and you're like, "Oh, this car is moving. Time for me to move next."
Maddox: No! When I'm at a red light, I'm looking at the...at the oncoming traffic to see if they're going to turn slow, 'cause there might be a lagger in the middle of the road who's not sig-...he's signaling, but he's not paying attention to the light turning yellow; guess what? Next thing the light turns green, you're pulling into traffic and all of a sudden this DIPSHIT'S stuck in the middle. I'm ready to honk every single time! Then I'm lookin' at pedestrians walking, 'cause they might be lagging walking across the road, then I'm lookin' at the car in front of me to make sure that THEY'RE gonna go and I'm ready to honk at THEM, and I'm lookin' at the car behind me to make sure they don't jump the gun and rear-end me! I'm ready 100 percent of the time, buddy! I'm like a -
Dick: (interjects) So, lemme ask you something. When you're...I would say the most paying attention I ever do is when I'm arguing with a woman. (Maddox chuckles) Like when I've argued with a girlfriend, that's when I'm paying attention at 100 percent.
Dick: 'Cause I'm thinking of shitty things to say...
Dick: ...and thinking of, like, whether or not she's wrong...
Dick: ...like, how to prove this, and I'm listening for every single fuck-up so I can throw it back in her face.
Dick: Do you think...would you agree with that? That that's when you're thinking 100 percent, is when you're arguing with a significant other?
Maddox: I...I've NEVER had to expend more than 12 percent of my effort to argue with somebody. (Sean laughs in the background)
Dick: Alright, well then... (Maddox laughs) Then I probably drive at about a 12 percent, paying attention...
Maddox: That's how you do it. (grinning)
Dick: ...and I spend 100 percent when I'm arguing with a woman. (cracking up)
Maddox: Yeah, yeah. No, I usually...I RARELY go above 50 percent.
Dick: There's just not that much stuff to do when you're...when you’re on the freeway, you can zone out!
Dick: You can look for stuff that might be coming in, but then you can go back to zoning out.
Maddox: Dick, that's YOU!! When I'm on the freeway, I am zig-zagging in and out of fuckin' traffic! (Dick laughs hysterically) I'm driving in the emergency lane if I have to, I'm all over the place! I'm goin' around suckers left and right...I see a semi, "Oh shit, this guy's gonna fuckin' turn...get in the left lane! He's gonna get in the fast lane and I gotta pass him up! He might fishtail, I better be prepared for that!"
Maddox: I predict, I prepare; I'm ready for anything, man.
Dick: Alright, I think you've made my point.
Maddox: (sighs) I gotta pee.