Biggest Problem in the Universe - Episode 30

Transcription courtesy of: Laurie Foster

Dick: Today's show is brought to you by Audible. Please visit for your free audio book download.

(Theme riff)

Maddox: Welcome to the Biggest Problem in the Universe. I'm Maddox. With me is Dick Masterson.

Dick: Heyyyy, what's up buddy?

Maddox: And Sean, our audio engineer.

Dick: Welcome back, Sean.

Sean: Thanks,guys.

Dick: Man, I hate not having you. (Sean laughs) I feel like the stats get out of control on this show when you're not here to rein them in.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Don't you agree, Maddox? (grinning)

Maddox: Oh, yeah. (sarcastic) You know me, I hate the stats. I hate information. I hate informing our audience. Our listeners.

Dick: (giggling) Who won?

Maddox: So…nobody won, Dick. (laughs) As I say time after time, after time again…however, the one with the most votes was "Celebrity Worship".

Dick: Ohhh!! That was you. You motherfucker.

Maddox: Yeah. Oh, was it? Yeah.

Dick: Yeah. I got a…do you have something to play? 'Cause I have something for you.

Maddox: Go ahead. Yeah, what is it?

Dick: I remixed…I thought…I was rubbing that "Maddox Lost" song in a little hard.

Maddox: Yeah, you were.

Dick: I thought it might have hurt your feelings.

Maddox: Yeah. A little hard.

Dick: So I remixed it. Do you want to hear the new version?

Maddox: Oh. Let's hear it! Yeah.

Dick: Yeah, I remixed it for you today.

Maddox: Yeah.

(Song starts to play, electric guitar/drums, singer sings while Dick fills in all the "LOST!" with half-hearted "Won"s that he recorded himself…"Maddox Won." "Maddox Won." "Maddox Won." "Maddox Won." "Maddox Won." "Maddox Won." "'Cause his problems 'were okay'!" (Maddox cracks up) …"Maddox Won." "Maddox Won." "Maddox Won." "Maddox Won." "Maddox Won." "Maddox Won." "Diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick is the 'lose' er!" song ends) (Maddox and Dick crack up)

Maddox: Oh, bravo Dick. That was a good song. I like that version a lot better.

Dick: I thought you might. (grins)

Maddox: But you know what's interesting, is…I was rooting around on my hard drive and I found another version of that song, actually.

(Song starts to play, electric guitar/drums, singer sings while Maddox fills in all the "Maddox"s with "Dick"s that he recorded himself… (Maddox cracks up) "Dick LOST!" "Dick LOST!" "Dick." "LOST!" "Dick." "LOST!" "Dick." "LOST!" "Dick." "LOST!" "Dick." "LOST!" "'Cause his problems fucking sucked!" "Maddox." "LOST!" "Maddox." "LOST!" "Dick." "LOST!" "Dick." "LOST!" "Dick." "LOST!" "Dick." "LOST!" "Dick." "LOST!" "'Maddox' is the winner!" song ends)

Dick: Great. Great song. (Maddox giggles) No collusion here.

Maddox: There was no collusion! The audience needs to know that Dick and I didn't talk about this beforehand. We both came in with a remix of that song. (grinning)

Dick: We both came in thinking of how original and how funny we would be…

Maddox: Uh-huh. Yep. (grins)

Dick: With our shitty remix that probably took three minutes…(laughing)

Maddox: Ehh. Mine took about six. Um…yeah. A couple of knuckleheads. Good. So then came "Bro-Downs". Surprisingly, Bro-Downs. And I got a lot of flak for "Hipsters".

Dick: Oh, I brought…can I read some comments about that?

Maddox: Oh, bring it! Yeah.

Dick: Matt Alegrete. Uh, Matt Alegrete says, "Maddox's arguments for hipsters are all just Maddox hating things that are popular. Sounds like Maddox is the real hipster. Better vote him up too." (Maddox giggles) Billy Nurse: "I thought I hated hipsters too, but Dick pretty much made me realize I don't. They still dress like stupid wankers, though." And Christian Myers…"Of course hipsters don't stand for anything. They aren't an actual group." (Maddox grumbles) "It's just a word lame idiots use to describe people who are more interesting than them." (Dick is smug) (Maddox guffaws)

Maddox: Oh, we found a hipster! Sounds like we found a hipster, you jackass! You piece of shit.

(Sound effect: "Wrong" buzzer)

Maddox: So, listen. Here's the thing. (Dick cracks up) Here's the thing. Everybody…

Dick: (interjects) Here we go!!!

Maddox: Everybody was saying that, right? (Dick cackles) They're like, "Oh, hipsters aren't a thing." That's the number one thing hipsters say! They don't like to be defined. (yelling) They don't like to define themselves, 'cause they don't want to be part of a group. And yet, miraculously, every time you walk into a hipster bar, or a hipster coffee shop, or a hipster clothing shop, you KNOW you're in one, because everybody's dressed the same, just like Goths. They're individuals. They're nonconformists. Except they all wear the same uniform.

Dick: Yeah, but your definition in the last show…(stammers) Okay, so you're saying that hipsters are like pornography. I know it when I see it. That's, like, the Supreme Court's definition of pornography.

Maddox: Well…okay.

Dick: No, it is!

Maddox: I know.

Dick: Well, that's a good thing.

Maddox: Sure.

Dick: It's a court. I would like a court to say, "You know what, I'll decide when I see it. I'll judge when it enters my courtroom if it's pornography or not."

Maddox: Okay. I have a problem with that. Specific argument with regards to pornography; however…but go on. I want to hear…

Dick: (interjects) Take it up with the Supreme Court, then. 'Cause that's what they…

Maddox: (giggles) I will, buddy. I'm on the docket.

Dick: Yeah. (grins) But that seems to be your definition of a hipster. I'll know it when I see it.

Maddox: No.

Dick: 'Cause then you threw on all this stuff about how they're all someone who's underachieving, and there were all these other qualifiers that I don't…I don't get.

Maddox: Yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah. Okay. Look, there were two arguments that weren't clear in the last episode that I really want to emphasize here. The first is that they are ostracizing. Okay? If you're not part of their clique…if you're not dressed like them, if you don't belong…

Dick: Uh-huh.

Maddox: Then you don't belong. They make you feel ostracized and unwelcome in their bullshit-ass coffee shops. They roll their fucking eyes 'cause I don't have a handlebar mustache. You know what? Fuck you!

Dick: But you roll your eyes at iPhone users, so doesn't that also apply to you?

Maddox: That's absolutely different! iPhone users, first of all, are not supposed to be a social culture. They are! They try to be. (Dick guffaws) They try to make this cult-like thing. But that's not at all relevant.

Dick: Okay. (grinning)

Maddox: And the second thing is…the guy said, "Well, Maddox just hates popular things." First of all, that's not true. I like lots of things that are popular. However…

Dick: (interjects) Like what?

Maddox: Like Nirvana, for example. I like Nirvana.

Dick: Okay.

Maddox: Nirvana's cool. I like the movie Ghostbusters. Very popular movie. (Dick cracks up) (Sean laughs)

Dick: Okay. Do you like anything current that's popular?

Maddox: Yeah, man! I saw…what's it…Cabin in the Woods is a good horror movie. Right?

Dick: Oh, okay.

Maddox: Yeah, which you wouldn't see 'cause you're too scared. So, listen. (laughs)

Dick: That's true.

Maddox: It is true.

Dick: My mind is a terrible place. I don't like…I don't like imagining horrible things. That's what those movies play on.

Maddox: Your mind is a wonderful thing to waste. (giggles) So, here's the thing, okay? So, the popularity thing. Right? The popularity argument that I hate things that are popular.

Dick: Yeah.

Maddox: If it's trendy, okay? If it's trendy. If everyone's doing the same style, if they're all conforming, then nothing new is being created, and that's my fundamental problem with trends like this, specifically trends in culture, because they're not creating anything new. They're just reappropriating something else…something that they saw someone else wear or do or try.

Dick: They do create art, though. Hipsters have a specific style of art. I don't appreciate it, but then I don't wanna be the guy who was like, around the time of Magritte, saying "This isn't art." 'Cause it's, like, it is. Looking back in time, it is clearly art. It's a statement on art.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: And I feel the same way about hipsters.

Maddox: (interjects) No, I…

Dick: Their art, I think, is kind of lame, but maybe in the future it will have some artistic merit. I don't know.

Maddox: Yeah, no. I agree. I agree, Dick. I like their art too. I just liked it better in the 80's, and the 70's, and the 90's, when it came originally.

Sean: And when it wasn't funded by rich parents?

Maddox: Exactly.

Dick: Oh, here we go! See, what, all hipsters have rich parents? Is that it? Here are the qualifications I don't get.

Sean: Generally.

Maddox: I got a comment from Twitter. This came to me on Twitter from Matthew Anderson. It's @max2000warlord. He says, "Maddox, it was actually fleas that spread the Black Plague. Dick is an idiot." 'Cause remember the last episode?

Dick: Yeah. Oh yeah.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: I said that rats…

Maddox: (interjects) That snakes eat rats…

Dick: And rats caused the Black Plague. Okay…

Maddox: And rats caused the Black Plague. It was fleas.

Dick: What is that guy's name?

Maddox: His name is Matthew Anderson.

Dick: Yeah. Matthew, shithead? How did the fleas get to the people? The fleas ride the rats. And it's not the flea that causes it, you dumb motherfucker, it's the virus. If we're being PEDANTIC…(angry) it's the virus! (Maddox giggles) It's the Plague causes the Plague! Not the fleas that harbor the virus and the rats that harbor the fleas! You pedantic fucking idiot!

(Sound clip: Angelo's mom: " You dumb shit!!")

Dick: I'm the dumb shit!

Maddox: You choose! You decide! (laughing)

Dick: I'm…this fucking guy!

Maddox: I was calling him the dumb shit, yeah.

Dick: It's a…oh, good, good, good. Thank you. (whiny voice) It's the fleas that cause it. It's the fleas that cause it. Well, I'd better watch out for hordes of rampaging fleas, then!

Maddox: You know…you know what fleas also like, what kind of environment, is dirty people who don't shower and hipsters don't shower, 'cause their feet smell so bad.

Dick: I thought you were gonna go with hippies.

Maddox: Well, hippies too. Hippies and hipsters. Hipsters are the evolution, or maybe de-evolution of hipsters.

Dick: You keep talking…here, I got another hipster one for you.

(Voice mail: "Heyy, this is Bill from Detroit. Maddox, listening to you sit there and rail on hipsters reminds me of the one thing you left out about hipsters that they love to do more than anything else. And that's hate on other hipsters." (Dick: That's true!) and then you go on to lionize your father's generation, like hipsters, while hating on your current generation as being uncultured, like hipsters. I think you just kind of outed yourself as the biggest hipster in the universe.")

Dick: Ohhh, you got a tag on the end, too.

(Sound clip: Angelo's mom: " How dare you?!")

Maddox: That's bullshit! I'm not the biggest fucking…I'm not any kind of hipster! First of all, hipsters don't lionize their father's generation, they resent it. They loathe it. Except for their culture, which they like to reappropriate. Up to about the 60's. Right? They don't go beyond the 60's or 50's. They think that shit's lame.

Dick: It is lame!

Maddox: They gotta stick with the 70's and 80's and 90's. I mean, not all of it's lame. And by the way, a lot of people were commenting, like (dumbass voice) "Hey Maddox, the 50's had social problems." I'm like, yeah. I mentioned that in the episode, you idiots. I know. There was segregation. There were civil rights violations. There were all sorts of problems in the world. We were in a cold war. It wasn't a perfect generation by any stretch of the imagination. However, at least that generation had some good, solid virtues, unlike just buying a narrative on a carton of milk.

Dick: Allllright. (exasperated) I got a comment from, you mentioned…did you mention "Celebrity Worship" yet?

Maddox: Not yet.

Dick: Okay. Matthew James says…and you cherry picked celebrity worships that were, like, very right wing and retarded, but what about, like…(Sean laughs) what about people like Colbert and Jon Stewart? Matthew James says, "People treat Colbert and Jon Stewart's word like the Gospel. Do you know how many Liberals proudly claim to get all of their information and opinions from comedy and satire?" That's true. What do you think about that?

Maddox: Yeah. I read that.

Dick: Does that fall in?

Maddox: I read that. But he gave no specific examples. So the problem this guy has with Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert is that a lot of people get their news from it, and honestly, I have gotten more informed watching the Daily Show than I have watching an hour of CNN. CNN does nothing but celebrity news. They do, uh…gossip. They do outlandish headlines. They're just trying…it's the TV equivalent of click bait. There's nothing informative on CNN anymore. You get the actual analysis and in-depth coverage that you want from the news in comedy shows. And it's a sad state of affairs that we have to tune into Comedy Central for our news.

Dick: I see. Well, we don't have to.

Maddox: Well, you don't. Yeah. I mean, I don't…that's not where I get my news. I read a lot of different new sources.

Dick: Like what?

Maddox: Like the BBC. I read the…right wing…

Dick: (interjects) Oh, yeah, they're good.

Maddox: Yeah. BBC is really good.

Dick: Yeah. I'll give you that one.

Maddox: And CNN International is really good, too. However, they only air it during the afternoons for one hour a day.

Dick: So as long as you get your news from some place outside of America, it's not poisonous hogwash? Is that what you're saying?

Maddox: It's not even that it's poisonous, it's that it's junk news. You're not getting informed about anything. It's just celebrity gossip.

Dick: Uh, speaking of celebrities, Matt Tamisi says, "I love you Maddox. Thanks for sending me special codes that you're sending me in these podcasts."

Maddox: Oh boy. Here we go. Is that a real comment?

Dick: That's real, yeah.

Maddox: Yeah. He's probably fucking with me.

Dick: Yeah, he's kidding.

Maddox: Good.

Dick: Yeah, uh…lemme see. I think I've got…oh! Here's a great voicemail. Speaking of Angelo's mom.

Maddox: (scoffs) Yeah.

Dick: Right? I got this in. I got this voicemail.

(Voice mail: (Someone imitating Angelo's mom, clearly male) "Hello Maddox and Dick! This is Angelo's aunt! (Maddox cracks up) Angelo's mom is my stupid bitch sister! First let me tell you something Maddox. Before you get too excited about all the things my crazy sister said! (Maddox and Dick laugh) First you need to know. She is a bona fide crazy bitch! You don't understand! She doesn't kid around! She's lookin' at your book all the fucking day! (Maddox and Dick crack up) This woman is a stalker! (Dick: Stalker?)I want to say to Dick is that really, she wants to fuck you! (Dick: I suspected as much)She is sooooo interested in how you fuck a woman…(Dick: Yeah?) (Maddox: Okay. (skeptical)) That she wants to fuck you! You don't understand! This is the way the Greek people make…(Dick: This is long-winded like Angelo's mom. Maddox: Yeah. Dick: All the women in their family are very foul-mouthed. Maddox: Oh yeah, I forgot this was a woman, too. (laughs)) Voice continuing in background…"Okay! Fuck yourself, Dick!!")

Dick: Oh, dammit! Dammit. (Maddox laughs)

Maddox: That seems to be the standard signoff for all messages we get for the show.

Dick: So Angelo's whole family is in on the action now.

Maddox: Yeah. That's a pretty good voice mail. That was actually Angelo's mom's sister, so Angelo's aunt.

Dick: Right.

Sean: I've missed a lot. I have no idea who these people are.

Dick: Yeah, Sean.

Maddox: Yeah. Maybe you should go back and listen. You should subscribe to the bonus episodes. (giggles)

Sean: Yeah, yeah.

Maddox: We'll give you a discount, Sean. (laughs)

Sean: Thank you very much. (grins) I do appreciate it.

Maddox: We…so you guys don't know this, but we make Sean sign a nondisclosure and he can't listen to these episodes as he's mastering them. He just has to, like, feel the vibrations through the laptop and that's how he masters them.

Dick: Like Beethoven.

Maddox: Yeah. Like Beethoven.

Sean: Well, you go through and re-edit 'em anyway, so…

Maddox: Yeah, that's true. (laughs)

Dick: Uh, that's it. I'm done.

Maddox: Alright, man. Let's get to the problems. You want me to go first this week?

Dick: Yeah. I've been taking up way too much time.

Maddox: Yeah, man. (Sean laughs loudly) That was, like, a fucking 40-minute story about an event that occurred in under 30 seconds. (Dick cracks up) (Maddox laughs)

Dick: Look, you gotta get every…you gotta really feel it. (grins)

Maddox: Yeah. No, I mean…you know. We painted a rich tapestry, there. Okay, my first problem is "Pedophiles".

Dick: Ohhhh, hokay. I regret letting you go first. (Maddox laughs) Should I recategorize this podcast on iTunes out of the comedy genre for this one?

Maddox: To what? Drama?

Dick: I don't know.

Maddox: Self help? (grins) I'm fine with self help. But listen to this, man. You know what the main problem with pedophiles is?

Dick: Yeah. Child molestation.

Maddox: Yeah. That's it. They molest children. (Dick cracks up) That's a big problem. Alright. I could just end it there. We could move on.

Dick: You really don't like hearing that "Maddox Lost" song, do you? This is the extent you're going to? (Maddox laughs) Bringing in pedophiles?

Maddox: See…okay, Dick. That's a good point. So that's why I kept emphasizing on the comments. I keep telling people it's not a contest. We're not trying to win here. Because then it encourages us to bring in populist votes. Populist problems.

Dick: What do you mean, us?!

Maddox: Yeah. Well, so I'm trying to eliminate that from being a…

Dick: (interjects) By bringing in pedophiles. Okay.

Maddox: No. No. (annoyed)

Dick: What's the problem with pedophiles? I'm sorry. I interrupted.

Maddox: They molest children.

Dick: Yeah.

Maddox: Yeah. So, I want everyone listening right now. When you're voting for this problem, take into consideration how much of a problem other things on the list are, right? (Dick and Sean crack up)

Dick: You know what pisses me off about this? Is I was gonna do this. (grinning) (Maddox laughs)

Sean: Let me tell you how to vote along with the problem?

Dick: No, I was gonna bring in child molesting and do exactly what he's doing right now.

Maddox: Oh, yeah. (grinning) So do militarized police molest children? No.

Dick: Maybe.

Maddox: No. Do people who are outraged over T-shirts worn by scientists and engineers molest children?

Dick: How come they're only my problems you're bringing up?

Maddox: I'm just…you know, I just picked a random…

Dick: Sampling?

Maddox: Sampling of problems, yeah.

Dick: Okay. What else? (grinning) Do snakes molest children?

Maddox: They might. Might not. No, I don't think so. So vote that down. But do monkeys molest children? Maybe! We don't know. We don't know for sure. Scientists still out there doing research on it. So here's some facts about child molesters.

Dick: Oh, my God. Alright.

Maddox: (laughing) (Dick laughs) They love to eat Doritos. (Sean scoffs) This is a fact.

Dick: Wait, wait, wait. Where are you getting these facts?

Maddox: Here. I got the source. This is a fact according to a website called The Best Page in the Universe!!

Dick: Ohhh. (annoyed)

Maddox: In an article titled, "There's Nothing More Disgusting Than the Sight, Smell, and Sound of Someone Eating Doritos". I guess this character Maddox wrote this article a long time ago about how pedophiles love to eat Doritos. You know, it's kinda funny. I actually got a hate mail a long time ago from somebody who said he was offended at that article. He said, not because he ate Doritos, but because he was a pedophile. (laughs) Okay, so. (Dick giggles) You know, I don't know man. Some of my listeners. Who knows. But according to the WHO, pedophilia is defined as a "Persistent or predominant preference for sexual activity with a pre-pubescent child or children."

Dick: Uh-huh.

Maddox: The person committing the crime has to be at least 16 years old and at least five years older than the child or children. That's considered pedophilia.

Dick: And the child has to be under 14?

Maddox: Uh, yeah. It's under 14.

Dick: Pre-pubescent? Something like that? Yeah?

Maddox: Pre-pubescent, yeah. Yeah. And there's a certain range that they go for. It's something like age 9 to 11 is the highest.

Dick: Ay ay ay! (weirded out) Alright. Then what? What's the other stats? (scoffs) Do you have any not gross stats? (laughs)

Maddox: Yeah, well here's…so, I looked into the science of this, like what causes pedophilia. What's going on here, right?

Dick: Right.

Maddox: The average pedophile has an IQ that is 10 points lower than the average population.

Dick: Yep.

Maddox: They're significantly more likely to be left-handed or ambidextrous. Did you know that?

Dick: I did know that. Yeah.

Maddox: Yeah. That's kind of interesting. Are you left-handed, Sean?

Sean: (in the background) No.

Maddox: Okay.

Dick: Are you a pedophile?

Sean: Uh, no!

Dick: No on both.

Sean: No on both, yeah. That's a stern 'no' on both.

Dick: Okay. Well…

Maddox: Yeah, okay. Well, that's good. We don't like to hire pedophiles on the show. So, um…

Sean: Hire? (incredulous) (Maddox and Dick cracks up)

Maddox: Yup. There we go. So yeah. That was kind of interesting, I found. That they're mostly left-handed or ambidextrous. Now, on average, pedophiles have far less white matter in their brains.

Dick: Mhmm.

Maddox: That's kind of interesting. So there's a scientist, I think his name was Cantor. He was doing this study and he looked at the brains. He was trying to find a biological basis for pedophilia.

Dick: Yeah.

Maddox: And see what's going on here. 'Cause a lot of people are looking at psychological issues, and this guy's looking at biological. And he scanned their brains and he found a lot less white matter. And that's the substance that connects the different regions in your brain.

Dick: Yeah.

Maddox: So there might be something biological going on. So, there's this article. You remember Dick, you brought in a long time ago, "Priests" as a problem?

Dick: Mhmm.

Maddox: And then you just…you just pigeonholed priests in the Catholic church?

Dick: I have a problem with them.

Maddox: Yeah, I know. Oh, I know. You already brought it in. (giggles)

Dick: Right.

Maddox: Yeah. There's an article on the BBC. I wish I had this when you brought that problem in, but it says…it's titled, "How Many Men Are Pedophiles?" Okay? So, this is according to that…this came out when that article you mentioned? The pope said there was about 2% of the Catholic clergy that are pedophiles.

Dick: Right.

Maddox: So they ask a question. How does this compare with society as a whole? Is it more or less than average? So there's this doctor. His name is Dr. Michael Seto, a clinical and forensic psychologist. He published a book in 2008 where he stated the upper estimate of prevalence of pedophilia in the general population is about 5%.

Dick: Uh, I actually coincidentally know the study you're talking about.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: The one thing you're failing to bring in is that 5% includes kids who are over 14.

Maddox: Right. You're correct.

Dick: Ohhhhhhhh!! I am!! (yelling)

Maddox: Yeah. Yeah, Dick. You're correct. And then…'cause I'm about to read. The article goes on and says, "With more data and better methodology, he has revised his figure down to about 1% of the population, though he makes clear this is still only an educated guess." Now, one of the problems is it's…so he says, "It's very common for regular men to be attracted to 18 year olds or 20 year olds, right? But it's not unusual for a typical 16-year-old to be attractive to many men and the younger we go, the fewer and fewer men are attracted to that group", says Cantor. Right? This doctor.

Dick: Uh-huh.

Maddox: He thinks that if we say that pedophilia is someone attracted to children aged 14 or less, then he estimates that you could reach about the 2% figure.

Dick: Okay.

Maddox: Yeah. That's where that 2% number comes from.

Dick: So…so what, you're saying that priests are just as likely to be pedophiles as…

Maddox: (interjects) As accountants.

Dick: As normal people?

Maddox: Or doctors. Or anyone. Yeah, anyone across the board. It's something…it's a prevalence that occurs in society.

Dick: So in your mind, are you disproving my priest thing right now? Is that what's happening?

Maddox: Well…

Dick: Are you casting light…are you exorcising my problem with priests?

Maddox: (giggles) No, Dick. I already did that when you brought it in originally. This is just giving some background information. So, how prevalent is pedophilia? Because we're trying to solve…we're trying to find the biggest problem in the universe on the show.

Dick: Right. So let's say it's 2%, then.

Maddox: 2%. How big of a problem is that, guys? Do you think it's a huge problem? Do you think it's the biggest problem in the universe? 'Cause "Female Genital Mutilation" is way up there. It doesn't affect…I don't think it affects 2% of the population. Of the world population.

Dick: Yeah.

Maddox: What are you…what are you grinning about?!

Dick: I'm wondering where you're going!!

Maddox: Okay. So there's another article I read. It's from the Daily Beast. It says, "What Science Reveals About Pedophilia".

Dick: Uh-huh.

Maddox: Okay. This is kind of interesting. So I read this article on the Daily Beast. It says, "What Science Reveals About Pedophilia". That's the name of this article, right? "Legally, it only becomes a crime when acted upon." So that's…that's the definition of pedophilia. And there's this movement online by people who…

Dick: That's a pretty good definition for a crime. (grins) It's illegal when it occurs.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Right?

Maddox: You're not a fan of thought crimes?

Dick: No, I'm not.

Maddox: Okay.

Dick: It's one of my CRAZY libertarian principles that I keep getting called out on in the comments…

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: That a crime isn't a crime until it's committed.

Maddox: You're nuts, buddy.

Dick: I'm crazy. (Maddox laughs)

Maddox: Okay. So, in the US…now here's a real problem with the whole pedophilia thing. Okay?

Dick: Okay.

Maddox: This is from the Daily Beast. They say, "In the US, laws that went into effect in the 1990's required that therapists and physicians report to Child Protective Services and other authorities that vary by state, anyone they believe poses a threat to a child. The legislation trumps patient-doctor confidentiality in these circumstances. Since reporting a potential pedophile results in legal action, the law has deterred many pedophiles from voluntarily seeking psychiatric help, which troubles some researchers, since the disorder can be easier to prevent than to treat."

Dick: Yeah. I did know that.

Maddox: Yeah. So…so. Pedophilia is wrong and it's bad and it's awful, right?

Dick: Yeah.

Maddox: But this is suggesting that the laws that we have for patient-doctor confidentiality being abused…or, I guess not abused, but broken…

Dick: Mhmm.

Maddox: When it comes to the case of pedophilia, it deters pedophiles from coming forward. What do you think about repealing those laws potentially?

Dick: Oh, absolutely! That talking to your therapist about something should not subject you to getting arrested and having the rest of your life ruined? Yeah. I don't think that should be a crime. (scoffs)

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: I don't think…I don't want to leave it up to, like, these people who are looking for help and struggling to express their feelings to their therapists. I don't want it to be in the hands of a therapist to sell them down the river for it.

Maddox: Yeah. Right.

Dick: Plus, if I was a pedophile, I wouldn't go to therapy, then. If that were the case.

Maddox: If you knew. Exactly. It deters people from going to get help. Um, so. This is something I keep finding over and over in the literature that I read. Pedophilia is considered a psychiatric disorder, not a moral failure. I was talking to a friend awhile back, who I said…I asked him…obviously, nobody is in favor of pedophilia, right?

Dick: Uh-huh.

Maddox: But I said, "Should we demonize these people to the extent that we are?" because you wouldn't say, like…an autistic person who committed a crime or did something inappropriate. Like…that book and movie, "Of Mice and Men", basically, Lenny, George's brother in the movie, he's a little bit slow. He has some learning development issues, or something like that, and near the end of the movie, he…

Dick: I thought he was full-on retarded.

Maddox: Well, he may have been. And yeah, that's the correct term we like to use. (laughs) (Dick cracks up) And near the end of the movie…(laughing) Near the end of the movie, he accidentally kills someone. And the punishment he got…they hunted him down and…

Dick: (interjects) Kill him! Yeah.

Maddox: Wanted to kill him, right? Is that just.

Dick: Yes.

Maddox: (scoffs) Okay. Well, I guess that's the end of this debate. (Dick cackles)

Dick: What do you want 'em to do?

(Sound clip: Angelo's mom: " You dumb shit!")

Dick: Sit him down and talk to him about it??! (laughing) Lenny from…

(Sound clip: Angelo's mom: " You are a jackass!!")

Dick: Lenny from "Of Mice and Men".

Maddox: Well, Dick…

Dick: That's a very specific example.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: And he just murdered someone.

Maddox: Sure.

Dick: And this is like the Dust Bowl, wasn't it? Like…(grins)

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: You don't have a lot of…we don't have Obamacare yet. Yeah, we gotta kill that guy.

Maddox: Yeah, okay.

Dick: We don't have the resources to handle a 300-pound retarded guy in the middle of Iowa.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Right?

Maddox: Yeah. Right.

Dick: Get rid of him.

Maddox: Great.

Dick: But that's not us anymore.

Maddox: Great solution.

Dick: That's what you're saying.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: It's a solution for the time!

Maddox: Sure. (scoffs) Sure, Dick. Great solution. Great solution for the time. There was no other remedy they could have done. They couldn't have locked him up or anything. They just had to shoot him point blank.

Dick: Locked him up?! Then you gotta get a jailer there…

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: You gotta do a whole bunch of…you gotta go through a trial.

Maddox: Uh-huh. Yeah, well. You know what, they should have just put him in a choke hold, huh? Um…(laughs) very timely. According to Fred Berlin, a psychiatrist and director for the Sexual Behavior Unit at Johns Hopkins. "We don't know why we experience the sexual desires that we do. For so long we've looked at this as if it's simply a moral issue. People are supposed to have certain attractions. And often, society said if you experience a different kind of sexual temptation or feelings, you're not as morally worthy a person." He said that, "It's not someone's fault that they have the condition, but it is their responsibility to do something about it. Telling me that someone has pedophilia is like someone saying about me that I'm a heterosexual. It doesn't tell you whether I'm kind, cruel, introverted, or extroverted, caring or not caring, intelligent or not intelligent."

Dick: Yeah. (skeptical)

Maddox: Right.

Dick: Well, what's your opinion on this?

Maddox: Well, it's a tricky one, man. I think that…first of all, just the amount of intense hatred people have towards pedophiles, and myself included, it's a disgusting, heinous act.

Dick: Mhmm.

Maddox: And…but, I think if we stop trying to say it's a moral failing, like what this professor's suggesting, and saying that it is a psychiatric disorder and we look at it in terms of somebody who is clinically ill, and they need treatment, then maybe we can start to solve this problem, because by deterring people from coming forward and trying to get help…it's not solving anything.

Dick: It's not a good idea. No. Um, you know what's interesting? When you said you were bringing this in, I looked into it a little bit, because I always thought that pedophiles came from, like Red Dragon, Hannibal Lecter kind of events? Where they were like, a boy as a kid, and their mom dressed them up as a girl until they were like, eight years old, right?

Maddox: Right.

Dick: Or they were molested themselves. But then I found all this BRAIN evidence, that's like, well, getting molested as a kid doesn't make you left-handed.

Maddox: Right.

Dick: Right?

Maddox: Well, we don't know. (laughs)

Dick: I would be willing to bet that it doesn't. (grins)

Maddox: (laughing) You come in, your penmanship's really bad the next day. "Oh, gotta send him down to the counsellor."

Dick: Oh! Arrest his parents!

Maddox: Arrest his parents, there we go. (laughing)

Dick: No tolerance.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: And then the white matter thing. The white matter thing was especially interesting to me, because it means the areas of your brain can't communicate with one another.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: So…impulses you have in one compartment of your brain get sent to the other ones and they get all garbled up and lost in transmission. So it's like, "Okay, well, if that's the problem, you know what else I found!! These weird communities online where pedophiles were like supporting each other not being pedophiles!"

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: 'Cause…if you imagine it like…and every document I've read was tripping over themselves to not call it a sexual orientation, 'cause they didn't want to offend gay people…

Maddox: Right.

Dick: Which is, like…okay, whatever. So it's not a sexual orientation. It's just a way that your sexuality is oriented. Right?

Maddox: (laughs) Okay. There we go.

Dick: So that's what we'll call it. That's what we'll call it.

Maddox: Great.

Dick: That's what we'll call what it is. It's, like…I imagine, like, what if being heterosexual, was like a horrible and heinous thing, right?

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Could I not do that forever with support? Maybe.

Maddox: Stop being a heterosexual?

Dick: Yeah. And just not have sex ever? Like, not gratify any of my sexual urges with, like, a person? You know? If it was the same thing. Like, you know. Mapping being a regular dude to being a pedophile.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Like, what if it's in your brain and it's unfixable?

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Can…could I go through life like that with support? That's my question. 'Cause that's what we're looking at.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: If all this brain shit is real, that's what we're looking at.

Maddox: I can't give you an educated answer about that. That's something that you really have to think about. Because imagine if you had this urge or impulse your entire life and you're simply told that cognitively, it's wrong and you need to fix it and you need to just simply not do it. I don't think that's the solution so much as actually solving the problem. Because if you just simple deny the impulses…because I'm also familiar with this group of pedophiles who have come forward who said they are non-offending pedophiles, but they are attracted to children.

Dick: What do you do?

Maddox: One of em is a 17-year-old kid. And he's trying to reach out to help. And people are still demonizing this guy. I'm like, "Guys, you need to chill out a little bit and just at least talk to him and figure out…try to find a solution. This guy's saying 'Hey, I need help.'" Right?

Dick: Yeah.

Maddox: Before I do anything wrong. I dunno, man. I don't know what the solution is.

Dick: Well, it's a hell of a problem, Maddox.

Maddox: (giggles) Yeah, it is! I got a little bit more. Judith Becker, a psychiatrist and professor at the University of Arizona. This is again from the Daily Beast. She conducted cognitive behavioral therapy for some of these pedophiles, right? Trying to solve the problem. She found that "…some pedophiles say that in their involvement with children, they've actually regarded themselves as being of the same age as their victims." It's kind of interesting. "During these encounters, Becker said, it's as if they slipped back into a much earlier phase in their own development, or perhaps never graduated beyond that in the first place. Becker also points out that many pedophiles do not operate with cold clarity about the ethics of what they're doing. Instead, they weave a cognitive distortion that absolves them of guilt or responsibility. They say things like, "Well the child didn't say no." or "It happened to me, therefore it's okay." Or "I love the child." They actually think that they're in love with the child.

Dick: (sighs) Oh, yeah. That…now, we got a Lenny situation happening.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: That…that can't be fixed or dealt with.

Maddox: If they do actually think that they're a child?

Dick: If they're starting to justify it…ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh. (groans) Exeroonie.

Maddox: But it is a cognitive bias. It's a cognitive distortion that they're doing.

Dick: Clearly.

Maddox: Yeah. Lenny didn't do that in the movie. Lenny was just a…he was like a dumb dog. He didn't know anything.

Dick: Didn't he say..wasn't his excuse that he was just, like, petting her?

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Petting that woman?

Maddox: Yeah, he was petting her.

Dick: Yeah.

Maddox: And he broke her.

Dick: He broke her.

Maddox: (giggles) He broke her. He had a childlike mind and he didn't understand his own strength and he killed the woman at the end of the movie. Anyway, Dick, that's my problem. Pedophiles. Big problem.

Dick: (exhales) Once again, this episode is…(laughs) brought to you by (Maddox laughs) Go to...unbelievable. Unbelievable that this is your fucking problem for this week. (Maddox still laughing) And no solution! Not even close to a solution!

Maddox: Dick, that's not the show.

Sean: I'm sure Audible really appreciates it.

Dick: Yeah! For some reason every time they sponsor an episode, we have this big catastrophe clusterfuck of a disgusting problem…wasn't "Female Genital Mutilation" the last one they sponsored?! (yelling)

Maddox: Maybe.

Dick: Jesus Christ, Maddox! You really hate ads.

Maddox: Yeah.

(Sound clip: Angelo's mom: " I love you, Maddox.")

Maddox: There we go. At least some people love me.

Dick: Okay. Uh…believe it or not, I have an even more horrific problem this week.

Maddox: (giggles) Than pedophiles?

Dick: Yeah.

Maddox: Okay.

Dick: "Goofy Lightsabers" (Maddox and Sean laugh)

Maddox: (laughing) Okay, Dick.

(Sound effect: Boooooooooooooo!!)

Dick: Goofy lightsabers, you guys.

Maddox: Goofy lightsabers. (grinning)

Dick: Yeah. 2% of people are pedophiles? How many people…what percentage of people saw this new Star Wars trailer? Probably more than 2%.

Maddox: Well, yeah.

Dick: It affects more people.

Maddox: Yeah…okay. (annoyed) Okay, Dick. I want you guys to consider now, when you're voting…(Dick and Sean crack up)

Dick: (yells) How is this not a competition all of a sudden!?!? It's all about voting for you!

Maddox: (laughing) No, no, no. We want to find the biggest problem in the universe. Now, do goofy lightsabers molest children? Think about that.

Dick: Goofy lightsabers are fixable, though. Pedophiles are not fixable.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: So are they even a problem? It's just a fact. Is it even a problem?

Maddox: Yes, it's definitely a problem, Dick. If it can't be fixed, it's even more of a problem! If goofy lightsabers can be fixed with a little bit of CG or a…maybe not watching the movie.

Dick: More CG is not the answer, my friend.

Sean: Less.

Dick: More CG is never the answer.

Maddox: Okay.

Dick: So, Sean, did you even see the new Star Wars trailer? Something tells me you didn't.

Sean: I did not.

Dick: Oh, goddamnit.

Maddox: Surprise.

Dick: Okay. Let me walk you through it. Lemme walk you through…'cause the first movies were dogshit, right? The first movies were made by George Lucas and they were dogshit. The prequels. And it pissed everyone off. Me included. 'Cause I kinda like Star Wars. Do you like Star Wars?

Maddox: I like the originals, yeah.

Dick: I like the originals too. I liked all of them. Even the Ewoks one.

Maddox: Yeah. The Ewoks one…the extended special Ewok spinoff that they did, with Wicket?

Dick: I didn't even see that.

Maddox: Oh, it's pretty stupid, but I still liked it. The monsters in it were cool and I liked the practical effects.

Dick: Yeah. But then, the prequels ruined everything.

Maddox: Right.

Dick: Right? By, um…well, I'll get to that. So…everyone's pissed off about that. Lucas sells Star Wars and J. J. Abrams picks up the new one, right? Pretty cool, right? Maybe we'll get back to the basic, right Sean? Maybe we'll have, like, a fantasy space adventure again. You know? Like we want. Like we deserve. Right?

Maddox: Yeah. Yeah, we do deserve it. We're getting…we're getting the…(pauses) I was gonna make a Batman reference. (Dick laughs)

Dick: Like the Dark Knight? These are the Star Wars movies we deserve.

Maddox: Yeah…there's no…

Dick: (interjects) Not that we NEED, that we deserve.

Maddox: That we deserve.

Dick: That we deserve. Okay. So the new trailer comes out. Uh, first scene. A black dude in a Stormtrooper outfit, right?

Maddox: Which was really controversial for some reason.

Dick: Yeah. (incredulous) I didn't get that, either.

Maddox: Why? I didn't even bother reading any of these articles. Because as soon as I read the word 'controversy' with regards to a stormtrooper who is black, I think, "Well, there's no controversy here. I'm not even gonna fucking dignify this bullshit article. This clickbait. By reading it."

Dick: Well, it was cool to me because I thought that it was a very clear statement that, "Look, hey, remember that stupid idea that all the stormtroopers were clones? Throw that out the window, 'cause here's a stormtrooper who's black."

Maddox: Right.

Dick: Like, awesome! I couldn't be more on board with this statement artistically.

Maddox: Sure.

Dick: Right?

Maddox: I don't care, honestly, what the stormtrooper could have been.

Dick: Okay. (Maddox giggles) Then we got a stupid, rolling robot guy.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Like R2D2, except he's a ball.

Maddox: Like on a soccer ball.

Dick: Yeah. (sighs) Like, okay. Alright. I'll let that one slide.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Looks kinda cool, whatever. He's rolling around.

Maddox: Sure.

Dick: Then you've got some kind of, like, stupid Jurassic Park thing where all these stormtroopers are all freaked out that they're about to make this landing. Remember that part?

Maddox: Ye…no.

Dick: Doesn't matter! It's suspenseful.

Maddox: Okay. (giggling)

Dick: Suspenseful.

Maddox: Okay. (giggles again)

Dick: That's what the prequels didn't have! Any suspense, right?!

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: It's just people sitting around in front of green screens talking to each other!! (yells)

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Suspense.

Maddox: Uh-huh.

Dick: Now I'm even more on board. (sexy voice)

Maddox: Okay.

Dick: Then we got a hot chick on a weird, stupid floating motorcycle. Okay, whatever. At least she's…that's kinda cool.

Maddox: Whatever.

Dick: Whatever, man.

Maddox: Whatever, man.

Dick: Not offensive. Not offensive.

Maddox: Put a hot chick on anything.

Dick: BOOM! X-Wings going over water. (impressed) Whooooooooa, cool! Right? Far out!

Maddox: Yeah. (grinning)

Dick: I'm ready to buy, right?

Maddox: (giggles) Okay, Dick.

Dick: Then this dude comes out in front of an evil forest, right? (Maddox giggles) This dude in a black cloak comes out (grinning) and then the music gets all evil, right? (quiet voice) He pulls out his hand. His lightsaber goes off. PPPSHEW! And then…more lightsaber sounds happen, and two stupid little prongs…(Maddox giggles) shoot out from the side of his lightsaber like a fucking claymore! Like a sword. (Maddox still laughing) Like a sword. A regular red lightsaber shoots out and then two, retarded, gimpy little cock-sized light…mini lightsabers shoot out from the side to make it look like a medieval sword! (yells)

(Sound clip: "Well that's unfortunate.")

Dick: Yeah! (Maddox laughs) And I go, "What in the fuck is this?!" I pause it and go…"What is…what are you doing? What the fuck are you doing?"

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Did this need to be fucked with?

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Did the cool…did the thing that was the cool lightsaber need to be fucked with?

Maddox: Yeah, man.

Dick: Do you need to put a spoiler on the Millenium Falcon? (Sean guffaws)

Maddox: Might as well at this point.

Dick: Is it like…(stammers)…wha…

Maddox: Put some stripes on that thing.

Dick: (yelling) Why!?!? Why?!? That was the whole point…what, Sean?

Sean: Persian racing rims?

Dick: Ca…you shut your fucking mouth, Sean! (Sean and Maddox crack up)

Maddox: Sean and his whore mouth! Uh, so here's the thing, Dick. Stephen Colbert did a piece on this, too. Did you see his video? Where he talks about this?

Dick: No.

Maddox: So he's kind of like a big nerd, and he's talking about how…he said that those little side lightsabers could have a practical purpose.

Dick: Uh-huh.

Maddox: By deflecting…umm…you know.

Dick: Okay. Keep going.

Maddox: Attacks from your hand, right? But then people pointed out how there's a little black ring where it comes out from, like, this little cross.

Dick: Yeah.

Maddox: So they said they could slice right through that little cross and the lightsaber wouldn't come through.

Dick: And this is where it gets ruined for me. This is the whole point of why Star Wars got ruined. Because it gets nitpicked and explained by fucking nerds as though it's a practical thing.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: You wanna know how the Force worked? It's fucking magic! That's it. It's magic! 'Cause it's a fantasy, fun adventure!

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Nobody asked how Harry Potter's wand works. It's magic!

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: How does the warp drive work? It's magic. Shut up. How fast is the Death Star? The Death Star is as fast as it needs to be for the movie to be suspenseful, you fucking retard! It's magic. That's how it works.

Maddox: Yeah. Nobody asks how Dumbledore casts his spells in Hogwarts. Nobody asks how Snape goes to Voldemort. Nobody cares!

Dick: No one cares.

Maddox: No one cares.

Dick: But for this shit, they do.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: And they ruin it.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: And Stephen Colbert's leading the charge. "Oh, well, actually, it could be this." Uhhhh, like dude, just shut up. Just take them off.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: It was cool! It was fine.

Maddox: You know what I like about this, Dick? I like so much. And I love…I love pissing off these little fucking nitpicky nerds.

Dick: Yeah.

Maddox: I love pointing out little things and saying things wrong and having little discrepancies in there.

Dick: Oh, yeah.

Maddox: Yeah. Like I just did a few minutes ago. 'Cause I know all these people's skins are crawling…(Dick laughs) And they're RUSHING to Twitter, "Hey Maddox, you fuck…(stammers) Dumbledore's in the Lord of The Rings!!! Bla blab la bla!" Shut up. Who cares? Fuck off with your fantasy shit. It's fantasy shit! I can make anything up if I want and I can…look, it's completely arbitrary. You're nitpicking an arbitrary universe! No one cares about this shit.

Dick: Yeah.

Maddox: Why don't you worry about shit that fucking matters? If you spent this much time and energy…I guarantee none of these people have spent this much time thinking about pedophiles this week.

Dick: (scoffs) Yeah.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: I mean, so there you go. Mine's a bigger problem.

Maddox: Shame on you, listener!

Dick: Because it's wasting more time. (laughs)

Sean: Maybe we should tell them that, you know, the possibility is that their Girl Scout cookie distribution could be in danger.

Dick: Because of what?

Sean: Pedophilia. I mean, you know…

Dick: Why?

Sean: Because the girls go out and sell cookies and stuff, and if there's pedophiles out there, then they may not go out and sell cookies, so I'm just talking, you know, audience specific.

Maddox: Oh, yeah. We got an audience of big Girl Scout cookie eaters.

Sean: That'll get them thinking about pedophiles.

Dick: Well, Sean, I don't wanna shit on your problem, but uhh…(Maddox laughs) you can buy Girl Scout cookies online now, I dunno if you knew about that…

Sean: Fuck, I just found that out, yep. Forget it. Erase the last 25 seconds.

Maddox: I think that if you buy them online, they should have a webcam of the little girl packing the cookies. (Dick laughs) I don't want it…

Dick: (interjects) Alright! That's the most pedophile thing I've ever heard!

Maddox: (laughing) No, just…they're not Girl Scout…(stammers)

Dick: (interjects) Do you know any pedophiles? 'Cause you were mentioning on, like, a very early episode that you met a…that you knew a real weirdo.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: You remember that? Yeah.

Maddox: Wait, what specifically are you talking about?

Dick: I dunno. You were saying that there was a real wei…when I was talking about priests, you were saying that you knew, like, a real weird guy as a kid that might have been a pedophile.

Maddox: Oh, yeah, yeah. Definitely. Yeah. That dude I'm pretty sure was a pedophile. Uh, he had some really weird shit going on. He always liked to hang around kids. But he was also exactly this profile. This guy was even a little bit slow. And actually, I wrote this article a long time ago called "How to Spot a Pedophile".

Dick: I remember that.

Maddox: Yeah. And it was about this thing that I noticed about pedophiles and that they have something that I call a "pedo smile".

Dick: Mhmm.

Maddox: I coined that term. And…

Dick: I'm sorry, what? You coined the term "pedo smile"?

Maddox: I did, yes. Pedo smile.

Dick: Hmmm.

Maddox: I coined that term.

Dick: I would love it if someone could verify or not verify that.

Maddox: Uh, go ahead, Dick. 'Cause I actually have evidence. I was cited in a scientific article. So, then, someone was actually looking into this. He said, "Well is there a visual approximation you could look at somebody and just tell that they have…that they might be a pedophile."

Dick: Yeah.

Maddox: And they said that there's something to a pedophile's smile that is kind of almost childlike and innocent and they try to lure in children. They try to induce them. So they actually looked into this theory. So, I was cited in this. So go ahead. Go ahead, Dick. Go ahead, everyone. I coined that term.

Dick: I'm genuinely curious.

Maddox: Yeah. So, anyway. Back to your lightsabers. Big problem. Goofy lightsabers.

Dick: Yeah. Look, I'm just…I'm so sick…it's ruined the whole thing for me.

Maddox: Yeah. You guys are ruining Star Wars.

Dick: We didn't need it. And there's all these theories now, like "Oh, you know what, it's actually…they're exhaust ports for the lightsaber."

Maddox: Mmmyeah. (skeptical)

Dick: Like, what is this, a Mustang? (Maddox laughs) Like, you need fuckin' exhaust ports? It's a laser sword. It's a fucking laser sword!

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: It doesn't need any other things on it!

Maddox: No. And if they can arbitrarily adjust the length of these lightsabers, why don't they just make em really, really long, and just, you know…like lasers? Why don't they just make them lasers? Why don't they just make lightsaber grenades where you just, like, throw plasma at them?

Dick: Like a gun.

Maddox: Yeah, like a gun.

Dick: Like, shooting lasers like a gun.

Maddox: Uh-huh. Yeah.

Dick: Because it is a fantasy knight adventure in space. So they have to have swords. It doesn't fuckin' matter. The practicality of it doesn't matter. They're knights with swords! That's what they're doing!

Maddox: I love this so much. That it's bothered so many fucking nerds.

Dick: It bothers me a lot! (yells) And I don't even consider myself a nerd! Like, I don't want it to be explained! I just like the…I like the movie. It's fun!

Maddox: (gasps) You're one of them! You're one of these nerds it's bothering! Dick!

Dick: I guess I am. I don't know.

Maddox: Ohhhh. You just gave me some ammo, buddy. I'm gonna wind you up.

Dick: The…it's like…

Maddox: I like that lightsaber.

Dick: It's the whole thing. (Maddox and Sean giggle) You got your knights. Your authority is delivered onto you by God, the Force, the knights were all about God, and like, God values, and Christianity and shit…and they put it right on the Jedi knights, too. We got these laser swords, 'cause we have to.

Maddox: Yeah. You know, I was thinking…

Dick: (interjects) And we believe in God. (Maddox laughs) And he gives us divine POWER! To choke people, or shoot lightning, or whatever! (yells) That's it! It's not a bacteria!

Maddox: Yeah. You know, Dick. You're…(stammers) the lightsaber thing is a very specific. A saber is a very specific type of sword and I don't think it's actually a saber. It looks more like a straight sword or a broadsword. Um, the lightsaber, though. If you change the word 'saber' to anything else, say, "light nunchuks", that's stupid.

Dick: Yeah.

Maddox: Um, light…what? Light sais. That's stupid.

Dick: What do you mean? Light…what did you say?

Maddox: Light katanas. Light sais. You know, sais, like Raphael's?

Dick: 'Lightsaber' sounds cool.

Maddox: Yeah, 'saber' sounds cool. That's why they use it. But if it was light nunchuks, it would be stupid as shit. No one would watch that movie.

Dick: Well, get ready. 'Cause I'm sure they're on their way.

Maddox: I hope. I think that'd be awesome, Dick. I can't wait for light nunchuks.

Dick: Oh, fuck you. (angry)

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Just…you know what we should do? Just give James Bond, like, a machine gun. All the time. Instead of that cool little piece? That Walter PPK he carries around?

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Like, do you guys not understand how iconic it is just to have the normal thing? Leave it alone.

Maddox: Yeah, I dunno man. I think they should add more swords. More hilts. More everything. They should have the lightsabers come out everywhere. Every different port. They should come out backwards, too.

Dick: Yeah. It should look like a menorah.

Maddox: Yeaaaaah!!

Dick: The lightsaber'll just be, like, "Wow, that guy's pretty badass. He's got a…he's Hanukkah man."

Maddox: There we go. Yeah, man!

Dick: With his menorah lightsaber.

Maddox: Blue and white? That'd be fucking cool as shit!

Dick: Stupid.

Maddox: Be big in Israel!

Dick: Alright. Uh, I'm done with that.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: I'm done talking about it. Today's show is brought to you by Audible. Please visit for you free audio book download. Maddox, do you know about Audible?

Maddox: I do.

Dick: They've got 150,000 titles to choose from. Every genre, Audible has it covered. Get a free audio book download when you sign up today. Listen whenever and wherever you want. Just like the podcast you're listening to right now! How about that?

Maddox: Right.

Dick: Have you checked out Audible? I know I said I would bring in that erotic lactation story…clips from it.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: That you can listen to on But I didn't have time. I'll bring it in next time.

Maddox: Yeah, you read that book, though, right? You read the erotic lactation story?

Dick: No, I listened to it. Audibly. Like, at Audible.

Maddox: Oh, you listened to it.

Dick: Yeah.

Maddox: Yeah. And it's something you can do while you're driving. If you want to listen to something erotic while you're driving.

Dick: You can also listen to other stuff. I found some other…I found some good books on there that I'd like to listen to.

Maddox: Yeah, like what?

Dick: I think they're good for both of us. "The Skeptic's Guide to American History".

Maddox: Oh, that's good. Who wrote that?

Dick: I don't know. I didn't write that down.

Maddox: Oh.

Dick: Uhh…actually, that might be more a "me" book. Skeptic's guide?

Maddox: No, I'm a skeptic, Dick. I like James Randi.

Dick: Okay. "A Short History of Nearly Everything". That might be me, too. 'Cause I like history.

Maddox: That's you, man.

Sean: That's a great book!

Dick: It is?!

Sean: Yeah. Super entertaining.

Dick: Ohh. (surprised)

Sean: It's, uhh…Bill Bryson. Right?

Dick: Uhhh, yeah.

Sean: The travel writer. Yeah, it's fucking fascinating.

Dick: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sean: Everybody should listen to that and read it. There's some stuff that'll blow your mind in there.

Maddox: I was prepared to say some shitty, snarky comment, but I think you actually sold me on that, Sean. That does sound interesting.

Dick: Yeah. Good thing you're here, Sean. Here's one that I think you would really like, Maddox. "Overcoming Premature Ejaculation with Hypnosis". (Maddox and Sean crack up) So you can listen to that on Audible.

Maddox: Yeah. I would like…

Sean: You hypnotize the girl.

Maddox: Yeah. Yeah. (grins)

Dick: I don't know, Sean. I haven't listened to it yet.

Maddox: Yeah. I was thinking immediately in the term of the hypnotist. I have to hypnotize the girl to overcoming premature ejaculation. (laughs)

Dick: Hey, I got another voice mail for you.

Maddox: Yeah, let's hear it.

(Voice mail: (male voice) "Hey Maddox. Just listening to your new episode and you mentioned vinyl and CDs, and you're a fucking moron. (Maddox: Ohh.)Um, for one. All the CDs you listen to get converted to analog anyways, and if you've looked at the waveforms,(Maddox giggles) vinyl's waveforms, since they originate from analog (Maddox scoffs)and they weren't converted to digital, they're more curved and less like a line graph. (Maddox scoffs again, says "Molecules.") ( Dick: Yeah.) (continues talking, but hosts talk over him)

Maddox: And alloys.

Dick: Alloys that your primitive mind can't understand, Maddox!

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: There you go. What do you think about that?

(Sound clip: Angelo's mom: " This guy is stupid!!")

Maddox: You moron! You know, I'll tell you what I think about that, Dick. It leads me to my next problem. "Audiophiles"!!!! (Dick and Sean laugh) Yeah. Audiophiles. The two philes. The two biggest philes. The two biggest problems in the universe I brought in the same episode, guys! It's gonna be neck and neck! (Dick laughs) You know, the main problem with audiophiles is that they molest children. Did you know that? (Sean laughs)

Dick: Great. (sarcastic)

Maddox: Oh. I seem to have written that down for both. (Dick cracks up) No, but this guy's an idiot. This guy's an idiot.

Dick: Yeah, but did you get his point about looking at the waveform?

Maddox: Yes. (Dick and Maddox laugh) Oh, I got it, Dick. I got his point, alright. So, here's the thing. The problem with audiophiles. So this guy was saying CDs and vinyl, right? He's a vinyl acolyte and he's a vinyl advocate.

Dick: I guess so, yeah.

Maddox: Um, yeah. A vinyl moron. Between every beat of song. So here's why I think that CDs are better than vinyl. So, between every beat of a song.

Dick: Mhmm.

Maddox: There's silence.

Dick: That's what you're going with first?

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: CDs are better than vinyl.

Maddox: CDs are better than vinyl.

Dick: Okay. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Maddox: Because in between every beat of a song, there is silence, right?

Dick: Um, I don't understand what you mean by that. Between every beat. Usually, there's a wall of sound in a song.

Maddox: Well, there is a wall of sound, but there's the downbeat. Gener…like, if it's a song that doesn't have a wall of sound, if it's not orchestral or whatever, but in between beats…like, it's the silence. It's the contrast between sound and not sound, or low and high parts of a sound that make it what it is. That make it music.

Dick: Dynamics? The dynamics of a song?

Maddox: Sure.

Dick: Okay.

Maddox: Yeah, the dynamics of the song, right?

Dick: I'll give you that.

Maddox: Vinyl is supposedly more accurate, but every tiny speck, dust, warp, or damage to the disc can be heard as noise or static. During the quiet spots in songs, you can hear the noise. You know what you hear during the quiet spots during a digital recording? Quiet. No grains. No specks. No dust. And no ghost of an archaic needle being dragged across pits and grooves of vinyl! (excited) Here's what they should do with vinyl. They should be collected, restored, remastered, and then promptly buried, along with fax machines and ET cartridges in the New Mexico desert, baby!!

Dick: Okay. (laughs)

Maddox: They may be fun to collect, but musically, they're worthless.

Dick: So you're saying musically, vinyl's worthless?

Maddox: Yeah. It's worthless.

Dick: Can I respond to some of those points?

Maddox: Yeah, yeah.

Dick: Before they get lost?

Maddox: What do you got?

Dick: So, first of all. What the fuck are you listening to that has quiet spots all over it?

Maddox: Oh, I…thanks for asking, Dick. I got an example.

(Sound clip: Pantera's "Walk")

Dick: Pantera?

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Awesome.

Maddox: Pretty badass.

Dick: Okay.

Maddox: Lot of quiet spots in this song.

Dick: Yeah, but small pieces of static in those quiet parts are not gonna distract you from the song.

Maddox: It's distortion, Dick. If I can choose not to have it, why would I choose otherwise?

Dick: Okay. (stammers) You kinda sound like an audiophile right there. Saying that the distortion is significantly impacting your listening experience, first of all. However, the thing you're missing about vinyl is it's not the…the imperfections of vinyl are not a detriment to it. In fact, the fallible process of recording ON vinyl is what gives it that warmth.

Maddox: Yeah. Everybody says that, Dick. They call that scratchy, grainy noise warmth.

Dick: It's even beyond that. Like, recording bass to a vinyl is so problematic to do that it introduces specific distortion that doesn't happen on CDs. I mean, keep in mind, this is not…this is not about perfectly replicating what was recorded. It's about creating a listening experience.

Maddox: (scoffs) Yeah. (giggles) You fucking hippy. So…that's what they all say. That's what all the vinyl acolytes say.

Dick: That's true! That's absolutely true.

Maddox: No.

Dick: That recording music is not about recording what you hear in the room, it's about recording something so that when it's played back, it's an accurate music experience.

Maddox: Yeah. (skeptical) Yeah, and it's not with vinyl. It's something completely different than what went into the system. Like, NPR, Science Friday, great show.

Dick: Uh-huh.

Maddox: They did an episode called "Why Vinyl Sounds Better Than CD or Not".

Dick: Okay.

Maddox: And here's somebody who prefers vinyl. Listen to this woman. Listen to what she sounds like.

(Sound clip: Woman: "I prefer uh…vinyl…listening to music is an experience and the full experience includes putting on the record (Maddox scoffs, imitates her in the background), moving over the needle, and sitting back and rocking out.")

Dick: Rockin' out, man. (grinning)

Maddox: Rockin' out, man. (hippy voice) You know, did she sound like anyone that we've had on this episode…on this show before?

Dick: Me?

Maddox: Yeah, you. On that KXLY interview. Listen to this. Here's that lady…the Ebola alarmist from KXLY.

Dick: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Maddox: Listen to how similar they sound.

(Sound clip: Ebola lady: "Well, that doesn't mean that they couldn't get it. That it could come up here." (Maddox whines, imitates her, says "Vinyl, waaaaaah, you just groove out, man.")

Dick: They don't have the same commanding audio presence that you do. I see what you're saying. (Maddox laughs)

Maddox: Alright, Dick. So…

Dick: But you don't agree with her?

Maddox: No!

Dick: Just listen to what she's saying. Putting the needle on. The whole, like, ritual.

Maddox: It's a ritual, yeah.

Dick: Is important to her. Is important to the experience for her.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: And that, to you, is worthless.

Maddox: And yet, you have a problem with priests and people who go to church.

Dick: (scoffs) Well.

Maddox: For ritual, Dick.

Dick: I actually don't. I mean, I'm one of those atheists that doesn't have a problem with church.

Maddox: Oh, good.

Dick: Like, people go for…to center themselves or try to gin up some hopeful thoughts for the week? It doesn't bother me.

Maddox: Well, Dick…(exasperated sigh) back to audiophiles and why they're a big problem. There's a guy named Sean Olive. He's the director of Acoustic Research at Harmon International. Kay? And there's another guy, his name's Scott Metcalf. He's the Director of Recording Arts and Sciences at the Peabody Institute of Johns Hopkins University. So they asked Scott which one he prefers, CDs or vinyl. Here's what Scott says.

(Sound clip: Interviewer: "Vinyl or CD?" Scott: "(laughs) Um, I enjoy both formats, but my preference is definitely CD.")

Maddox: Oh.

Dick: Sure.

Maddox: He prefers CD. I wonder why? Here's what his explanation is. (Dick laughs)

(Sound clip: Scott: "Well, I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I'm primarily a recording engineer (Maddox: A recording engineer.) as far as working with music, and um, it's the closer thing to what I'm sending in to the recorder, is very much what I'm getting back out.")

Maddox: Yeah, Sean, you were nodding. (stammers) As our audio engineer, what's your input on this?

Sean: Well, that's one of the misconceptions is saying…(Dick cackles maniacally) No, no, no. That people…well, I'll say it this way. It is true that digital recording captures what it's more like on input end of the console. But, the thing is, is things like drums and bass and vocals going to tape, it's a colored sound.

Maddox: Yeah.

Sean: And we're talking…forget about the end product. Forget about whether it goes to CD or vinyl. Just either tracking to, you know, 2-inch analog tape, if you can really find it anymore, or digitally into Pro Tools or what have you, we seem to like what tape does to the sound.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Humans, you mean?

Sean: Yeah. Well, yeah. We do. You know, for whatever…you can argue the reasons, you know, forever. But we seem to like it. But it is not as accurate as digital recording is nowadays.

(Sound effect: Ding!)

Dick: I got two questions for you, Maddox.

Maddox: Thank you, Sean.

Dick: Number one, how come you didn't make fun of that guy's voice?

Maddox: What, the guy who talked?

Dick: Yeah. The engineer.

Maddox: Yeah, it was pretty stupid.

Dick: He sounded just as stupid as those other two.

Maddox: Oh, the engineer?!!? No he didn't. He sounded smart as shit! (yells)

Dick: Play his voice again. Blablabla, uh, hi! (Nerdy whiny voice)

Maddox: Okay, right. Here.

Dick: Hi, I'm Alvin the Chipmunks, the audio engineer.

Maddox: Yeah, listen to this. (grins)

(Sound clip: Scott: "Well, I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I'm primarily a recording engineer (Maddox: A little Kermitty. (Dick laughs) A little Kermitty. Dick: Okay. Shut it off. (laughing) as far as working with music, and um, it's the closer thing to what I'm sending in to the recorder, is very much what I'm getting back out.")

Dick: Number two.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Speaking of accurate representation.

Maddox: Mhmm.

Dick: What's better? A story told as accurately as possible…(Maddox chuckles) Or one that got a little staticky in the transmission? You tell me.

Maddox: Well, Dick, it really depends. If you want…if it's in the court of law, you want it as accurate as possible, but if you're embellishing, say, I don't know, about throwing oranges or something…(laughs)

Dick: That wasn't embellished at all. (Sean and Maddox laugh) That was not embellished at all.

Maddox: Well, it was a very rich tapestry we painted.

Dick: So, you like listening to your music in a court of law.

Maddox: Well, hold on. Hold on.

Dick: You would say.

Maddox: Well, sure. (Dick laughs) I mean, look. Look, Dick.

Dick: Put on the Barry White, ladies and gentlemen. (grins)

Maddox: Look, I want a consistent recording. If they want to add that warmth. If they think that warmth is good for the record, they can add it before when they're recording it. They can make it sound that way as they wanted to! (excited) You can add static noise. E-everybody (stammers) Every single MP3 out there, you can add static to it! Nobody does it, because nobody wants that "warmth"!!! (yells) And warmth is an arbitrary adjective people use. It can be…it can say coldness. It can say dirt. Dirt doesn't have a positive connotation. Warmth does. They don't call it what it is! It's dust, idiots! Call it dust! I like that "dusty" noise to my records. No, you're a moron! You're an idiot!

Dick: That's a totally different adjective that you MIGHT hear if you're recording or you're engineering a recording session.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: Warmth is very specific and everybody agreed on it…BY THE WAY…all of music is arbitrary!!! (yelling) It's all just listening and having your emotions fucked with.

Maddox: Yeah.

Dick: It's not about 1s and 0s. And…what, Sean?

Sean: Well, that's exactly what I wanted to say. Going back to it. You're supposed to be listening to the song. To the content. And however it's…whatever gets you there. All that shit is just tools. And the studio, if you've ever, you know, been in there and tracked things, you'll know…

Dick: (interjects) Sean, can you add "as I have" to everything you say?

Sean: Well, yeah. Well, okay. Well, look. It's a great emotion suck. Microphones are nothing compared to the human ear and brain, uh, you know…interpreting system. So, it's like…what you try to do is add back some of that human element that is lost. There's the whole school that says, "I want to capture, I want a documentation-type recording. I want a document." If you play that back for the band, they are going to be fucking appalled at how shitty and small they sound. You have got to help it along, be what it was always supposed to be!

Maddox: Well, it's interesting you mention that, Sean. 'Cause you also mentioned that…

Dick: (cackles) Smug asshole.

Maddox: Uh-huh. Yeah. No, no…real good comment.

Dick: Okay.

Maddox: And also, you mentioned, 'cause you know, people prefer the recorded tape, you know, analog, that sort of thing.

Dick: Yeah. (grins)

Maddox: A study according to Florida State University. They took a bunch of CDs and high-quality cassette recordings. Right? They got the same exact recording, so you get a really high quality analog versus really high-quality digital comparison. Using identical microphones, they mixed them exactly the same, both digitally and analog using Dolby B. They tested 40 music majors while they switched back and forth to synced tracks. And almost all of them, right across the board, gave higher ratings to the digital presentation in bass, treble, and overall quality.

Dick: Like usual, this means…this study means absolutely nothing.

Maddox: (stammers) YOU mean absolutely nothing, Dick!!! (yelling) I just cited a study that researchers have done. It's in JSTOR. You can look at it. I'm gonna post it on our website!

Dick: It doesn't matter that the study exists. It's like you're saying two people made pies exactly the same. (Maddox groans, exasperated) You can't make a pie exactly the same. It's tooootallly different!

Maddox: Wrong! No, the preparation of the pie is different. We're talking about the recording. It's saying you baked a pie in one oven versus another oven. That's a more accurate example. If you have the same person bake two pies and put them in two different ovens, that's a more accurate example.

Dick: But this is what you're failing to take into account. So you've got all the microphones set up, right? You've got 'em going into an analog setup and you've got 'em going into a digital setup. If you're doing it right, you would set everything up differently for specifically what you're trying to record it on!

Maddox: Why would you, Dick?

Dick: (yells) Because it's art! Because the whole fuckin' thing is art! It's not computers, it's art! The same reason you hold a brush differently when you're trying to paint something that's exciting versus something that's stagnant. The same reason that Van Gogh is art and Picasso is art, and Rembrandt is art, even though they're WILDLY different styles! It's not meant to accurately reflect anything! It's not a court room reporting!

Maddox: Dick, nobody adds noise. All this bullshit, this art that you're saying? Nobody adds that to digital tracks. You could! You could add that…

Dick: You can't!

Sean: That's done all the time. People always…there's tape saturation plugins. There's thing…there's a shitty little free program called Isotope Vinyl that adds the dust and noise and mechanical wear of record players.

Maddox: Oh. Oh, so that happens?

Sean: Yeah, people…

Maddox: So you're saying we don't need vinyl?

Dick: You don't NEED vinyl, you jackass! You don't need any of it!

Maddox: So if you can choose whether or not you have that dust…with vinyl, you don't have a choice. It's fucking there. And by the way, it degrades every single time. The bass…the high…the dynamic ranges are way lower in vinyl.

Dick: Uh-huh.

Maddox: The bass is scraped out, the treble is scraped out. It's a pain in the ass to master, according to audio engineers, that I've read, right?

Sean: Well, it is, because phase comes into it.

Maddox: Yeah!

Sean: The needle will jump the groove if your record is not in phase. And that's kind of a lost art. People don't even check that shit so much anymore. I mean, good engineers do, but…

Dick: (interjects) It's part of the artistry of it.

Sean: You guys hear that sound, though?

Dick: No, what?

Sean: That's, like, 20,000 female members of the podcast clicking "stop". (Maddox and Dick crack up)

Maddox: No man, listen.

Dick: Don't generalize, Sean. That's sexist.

Sean: I know. I immediately regretted that.

Maddox: Oh Jesus, Sean. (Dick laughs) Dick saying that.

Dick: Angelo's mom will be all over you next, man.

Maddox: Yeah, Sean. Watch it. So listen. I hate the website,, but they had an article that said "Vinyl's great, but it's not better than CDs." So this is gonna be a real balanced article, of course.

Dick: Yeah, it is.

Maddox: No, but they said, "Vinyl pressing is not error free and the analog groove of a given record is not the precise replication of the audio wave recorded in the master." So, countering that dipshit who called in, right? "Not least due to extreme high and low frequency limitations. The way CDs work is by sampling audio waves at various points and stringing the samples together, so a common criticism…", and I think, Dick, you've made this point, "is that CDs and other digital formats are lossy, because no matter how dense the sample rate, you still lose some information." Well, that's what slow-thinking people who don't understand calculus think.

Dick: Hold on, slow down. Are you saying that…you're saying that CDs…read that last part again. Are you saying that some people say CDs are lossy?

Maddox: Yeah. They say that CDs and other digital formats are lossy, because no matter how dense the sample rate, you still lose some information.

Dick: No, I don't agree with that. I think that they capture it just fine. CDs?

Maddox: Oh, this is news to me, Dick!

Dick: No…(stammers) because, Maddox, here's some more news for you. Nobody uses fucking CDs anymore! Who gives a shit about CDs?

Maddox: Yeah, but the digital format. That's what I'm talking about.

Sean: Well, the digital…if you're using the CD as a standard digital format still, that's 16-bit, 44.1

Maddox: Kilohertz.

Sean: Kilohertz, which is 44,100 samples per second.

Maddox: Per second.

Sean: That's the sampling rate. But most music today is recorded at much higher sampling rates than that, and then when it's exported, it's downsampled to that.

Dick: MP3s…the bit rate of an MP3 is WAY less than a CD.

Sean: Well, yeah. It's about…well, it's…

Maddox: It depends. It doesn't have to be. But here's why it's irrelevant now. Because of something called the Nyquist-Shannon Theorem. Have you heard of this?

Dick: Yeah, I know what that is!

Maddox: Yeah. Lemme read it for the listeners who don't know. "The theorem states that intuitively, we expect that when one reduces a continuous function or waveform…" Right? That guy was talking about (dorky voice) "Look at the waveform, blabla Maddox, aaahhh!"

Dick: Yeah.

Maddox: "…to discrete samples and interpolates back to a continuous waveform, the fidelity of the result depends on the density or sample rate…" Sean, you were saying the 44.1 kilohertz…"…of the original samples." Right? So, if you have little gaps in between, they're saying that you lose data. "The Nyquist-Shannon Theorem introduces the concept of sample rate that is sufficient for perfect fidelity so no actual information is lost during the sampling process."

Dick: Yeah, on a CD. Who fucking cares.

Maddox: Math. It's math, idiots. No, MP3s!! Anything you want! You can choose the sampling rate!

Dick: Yeah, but that's not how the real world works. In the real world…

Maddox: (interjects) Oh, tell me about the real world, Dick!

Dick: …people are listening to MP3s at 120 Kb/second and 256. And those are not as good. AND, audio engineers specifically can tell them apart.

Maddox: Dick, you can't argue on one hand…

Dick: (interjects) Oh, here's a study that I have backing that up!

Maddox: Oh, great. Let's hear it.

Dick: Academia at…I think it was McGill. "Audio engineers overwhelmingly were able to tell the difference between MP3s even at compression levels of up to 256 KB/sec, which is what iTunes is, by 60% to 80%."

Maddox: So, audio engineers enjoy music less? Is that what you're saying? And by the way, why is that noise…why is that distortion considered "less than" the distortion from vinyl?

Dick: 'Cause it's digital distortion. The vinyl distortion is specific to digital.

Maddox: You're just saying what it is. Dick, you're not answering the question! Why?

Dick: 'Cause people LIKE it!! (yells) People can identify it overwhelmingly.

Maddox: I like it, man. You know what? The sound effects we play on this episode…listen to this one. Listen to how much distortion there is in this. To me, it gives me a good feeling. A good, warm feeling. Listen to this.

(Sound clip: "Well that's unfortunate.")

Maddox: You hear that?

Dick: What, all that mic…that wind noise?

Maddox: The noise…yeah. I like the way that sounds. Even the buzzer noise. Listen to this.

(Sound effect: "Wrong" buzzer)

Maddox: It sounds…it has that kind of, like, distorted noise to it.

Dick: What, the flangy shit at the end that sounds awful?

Maddox: Yeah. It's fun! It sounds awful? Everyone loves it!

Dick: Are you saying that vinyl distortion is just inherently negative? Are you saying that everybody who says they like the warmth of vinyl is deluded?

Maddox: I'm saying that people who say vinyl is superior to digital, analog is superior to digital, are misled and uneducated.

Dick: I'm saying you don't understand the ritual of having a vinyl…a physical thing. A physical representation of the emotion and the music that you're listening to is important to people. If you don't understand that, then there's no point in having the discussion. Having the object is important.

Maddox: Yeah, it's important to some people.

Sean: I just think that this isn't, like, an audiophile problem.

Dick: Yeah!

Sean: I mean, maybe it…because, here's the thing…

Dick: (interjects) It's a vinylophile. No, it's a pedophile problem, apparently. (Maddox giggles)

Sean: No, the audiophiles that I know are the ones who spend, like, you know, 8000$ on cables.

Dick: Yeah.

Sean: You know, and that kind of stuff, like it's…this sounds more like a vinyl versus digital reproduction, like a playback reproduction argument to me.

Maddox: Yeah. You know Sean, I started with that because of the voice mail; however, I did want to bring this in. This is from Gizmodo. An audiophile deathmatch between monster cables and a coat hanger.

Dick: Well, those…yeah. Monster cables are bullshit. You know that.

Maddox: Yeah, well of course. This is audiophile shit. Listen to this. "A poster at Audioholics was put in a room with five fellow audiophiles and a Martin Logan SL3 speaker set at 75 dB at 1000 Khz playing a mix of smooth, trio easy listening jazz that no one had heart before. In the corner, Monster 1000 speaker cables, in the other, four coat hangers twisted and soldered into speaker cable. After five tests, no one knew that the coat hanger was even used." (laughs)

Dick: Well, yeah. (laughs)

Maddox: When music played through the coat hanger wire, we were asked if what we heard sounded good to us. All people agreed that what was heard sounded excellent; however, when AB tests occurred, it was impossible to determine which sounded best the majority of the time and which wire was used."

Dick: Yeah, you got 'em.

Maddox: There you go. Audiophiles.

Dick: So how big of a fucking…so, monster cables is the problem here.

Maddox: Audiophiles is the problem. And audiophiles…these fall into the same category. Look, the ritual I understand, but it's all perception, Dick. They talked about this on the NPR episode. They said that you perceive it as being better because you go through that ritual, just like you do with expensive steak, or go into a place to get fancy wine, or if you go to Italy and sit down and have a nice Italian meal, you think it's better because you're in Italy, but sometimes the food is fucking worse, like in Greece. Most of the food kinda sucks in Greece. (laughs) But I've had way better Greek food here in the United States.

Dick: What is the fuckin' difference?

Maddox: Between what?

Dick: The whole experience is part of it.

Maddox: Well, no. You can have the experience, but you don't have to delude yourself. You don't have to lie to yourself!

Dick: Yeah. If you're gonna go with audiophile, you're talking about people like Fabio, who spent, like…he spent, like…more than a car on his sound system. Is that a well-known thing or do I only know that? He spent, like, hundreds of thousands of dollars on his audio system.

Maddox: The model?

Dick: Oh, yeah. The erotic book cover model.

Maddox: (giggles) Yeah, he was also on Wizards and Warriors 2, on the Nintendo Entertainment System. (Dick guffaws and cackles)

Sean: I think of him as that guy who got smacked in the face by a bird at Disneyland.

Dick: Yeah, that was great. (grinning)

Maddox: Yeah, that's the guy. That's the guy. So, he spent thousands…

Dick: (interjects) No, I remember what it was. He spent 800,000$ on his sound system.

Maddox: Yeah, he's probably not the brightest guy.

Dick: Uhh…you know.

Maddox: Probably he's never heard of the Nyquist-Shannon Theorem.

Dick: Also a multi-multi-millionaire. So what the fuck does he care? You know. (stammers) Is a Class A amplifier better than, like, an integrated circuit amplifier? I don't fuckin' know. Probably. There's probably amplifiers that perform better with speakers that they're attached to. I don't know. I don't really know. Actually, the room that you're listening to it in probably has more to do with your music experience than the speakers it's coming out of. I don't know if that's true, but just from being a musician, playing in different rooms has a major effect on how you sound.

Maddox: Dick, you sound like a hippie. (Maddox and Dick crack up)

Sean: In my experience…

Dick: (interjects) Oh, wait…wait a minute, Sean. Fuck you, Maddox! Please continue. (Maddox laughs)

Sean: In my experience…(Maddox and Dick crack up) The order of importance, you know, when you're in the recording studio, the talent matters the most. If…you can have a guy with a mediocre guitar and he'll make that thing sound pretty damn good as opposed to, you know, a guy who has no control over his dynamics playing something bitchin', you know, the D28 or something like that. So it's…the room, after that, has a LOT to do with how things are sounding. This room is not optimal. I hear a little room in here sometimes.

Maddox: Yeah.

Sean: But it's pretty good.

Maddox: You know what, Sean? It's because of the talent. That's why this podcast sounds so good.

Sean: Hey, hey! (Maddox and Dick crack up) But ultimately, it's the content. You wouldn't want Exile on Main Street sounding like a Steely Dan record.

Dick: That's true. That's a great point.

Sean: It doesn't serve the…(stammers)

Dick: The fidelity of the recording affects the listening.

Sean: I agree with Dick in that it is art.

Maddox: Yeah, well, okay, great.

Sean: And that's…

Dick: (interjects) That's your worst fucking nightmare.

Sean: It's all subjective, and I think nowadays, people prefer digital for those reasons. They didn't grow up with analog tape hiss, let alone vinyl. Remember, you're going from analog tape, which has an inherent noise floor. Digital, there is no noise floor. It's silent until you, you know, put something…

Maddox: Yeah. Pretty cool. It's science. You're listening to science. (Dick laughs)

Sean: So, if you go…

Dick: (interjects) Does that get your horny, baby? (laughs) (Maddox laughs)

Sean: Look, it's the whole reason why, like, things like Dolby were invented. It was noise supporession software. (stammers) Er, a noise suppression system, not software.

Maddox: Pretty cool.

Sean: But it was, you know, back in the 60s, and it's still used. It's…

Maddox: Give that man a beer!

Dick: Well, my point with Fabio is…he's got money to blow on it. He's trying to enhance his listening experience.

Maddox: (scoffs) Oh, great.

Dick: Who the fuck cares? How is it a problem?

Maddox: It's a problem because they're pretentious and they feel that they are greater than. They make everyone else feel small and inferior and they LORD their fucking musical knowledge. "It's art, man. You don't understand, man." (hippie voice) (Dick cracks up) That's what they do! They're fuckin' snobs. They're pretentious dickheads.

Dick: Is that what I'm doing?! (grins)

Maddox: That's what you sound like. That was a direct quote. (Dick laughs) You play that back! You can't even tell who was talking during the episode.

Sean: Well, what do you…if it's not art, then what is it? I mean…we're listening to the song.

Dick: Yeah! No.

Maddox: I don't know, Sean.

(everyone talks over each other and are inaudible)

Maddox: What isn't art, then? Is programming art, huh? (Dick laughs) I took a shit. Is that art?

Dick: No, no. Those are both crafts. Programming and shitting are crafts. There's a difference between arts and crafts.

Maddox: I would say shitting is a crap. (laughs)

Dick: Shitting is a craft, because you can get better…

Maddox: No, crap. (laughs)

Dick: Oh, shitting is a crap. (laughs)

Maddox: Dick, what do you got? What's your next problem?

Dick: No, that's. I'm not…this has gone too long. I'm gonna save the other one. I'm just bringing in "Goofy Lightsabers" today.

Maddox: Oh, sweet. "Goofy Lightsabers". (Dick and Maddox crack up and keep laughing)

Dick: It's too long!

Maddox: Tune in next week, guys. (cracking up)

Dick: It's too long!

Sean: Let the remixes begin this week. (Maddox and Dick die of laughter)

Maddox: The Biggest Problem in the Universe…

Dick: (interjects) I just want to thank for sponsoring this episode. Go to for your free audio book download.

Maddox: Thank you, Dick. And my problems this week were "Pedophiles" and "Audiophiles".

Dick: And my problems are "Goofy Lightsabers". (trying not to laugh)

Maddox: (laughing) Don't forget to vote. Check out our sponsor. Thanks Audible. And, tune in next week. Lots more to come.

Dick: Thanks for listening. (grins)

(Closing riff)

Maddox: (funny voice) Dick. Dick. Dick. Dick. Dick. Dick. Dick. (Dick laughing)